15/02/10

these learned purveyors of bazaar gossip

the amount of bazaar gossip that has been bandied around as knowledge by the activists and 'researchers' of the separate telangana movement is amazing. what's equally amazing is the quality of the pathetic leadership of the congress party at the centre which all through the last ten years listened to that kind of wild arguments and nodded its head.

would you nod your head at this kind of argument?
According to an estimate, while Rs.1,30,856 crores has been spent on education in Coastal Andhra and Rs.38,247 crores in Rayalaseema, expenditure on Telangana is only Rs.16,338 crores.
found that precious nugget of knowledge in an appeal sent to the prime minister (and sonia gandhi, of course) recently by an organization called 'Hyderabad Forum for Telangana' (you will find the appeal here on facebook, and with some of my comments on it, here).

look at those figures: 1,30,856 crores were spent on the nine districts of coastal andhra since 1956, while 38,247 crores were spent on the four districts of rayalaseema and only 16,338 crores were spent on the ten districts of telangana! while around 14,000 crores were spent on each district of andhra, 9,500 crores on each district of rayalaseema, and only 1600 crores were spent on each district of telangana. or only around 8.5% of the entire education expenditure since 1956 was spent on telangana (which is home to around 40% of the total population of the state)! i ask myself, shouldn't the estimator have asked himself: am i going slightly overboard, maybe?

if you were a plain, garden-variety conspiracy theorist, you'd hesitate a little before manufacturing those kind of estimates. you'd worry about believability. but in the homes of the telangana separatists these days, every ganesha on every wall calendar drinks milk, so all the manufacturers need to worry about is to keep the supply of milk running. and that's the only concern that worries them: the supply shouldn't run dry, we'll think about quality later, much, much later. so like illicit liquor producers across the slums of india, they throw in whatever they can lay their hands on into the brew: the academic equivalents of chemicals, offal, dead rats. because the market needs the fix, and now. more than it needs solutions to hunger, caste or poverty.

so none of the believers ask: whose estimate? what source? when did they compile the data? but until now the immensely creative knowledge of the manufacturers was mostly thrust on domestic users. and for a major part of the fifteen years of their efforts to build a market, there were very few takers for their kind of knowledge, their product, even in the domestic market. until sections of the congress, away from power for nine long years and desperately short of electoral mantras, and a few other mainstream politicians took on the responsibility of marketing this new post-reforms variant of an old, discredited product. it was only then that it attained the kind of visibility in public discourse that sharad pawar and many others in the congress lend to the shiv sena in maharashtra.

did andhra pradesh spend rs.1,30,856 crores plus 38,247 crores plus 16,338 crores on education since 1956?

no. rs.1,30,856 crores plus 38,247 crores plus 16,338 crores is rs.1,85,441 crores, and i don't think the government of andhra pradesh has spent even half as much on education, cumulatively, in all the years since 1956. but you can check for yourself from the andhra pradesh government's own budget estimates that you can find through a little exploration here. let me outline here some of the results i obtained through my own efforts at exploration there:

*2009-10. the budget estimate for expenditure on education for the year 2009-10 is around
10,800 crores in 2009-10, (page 32),
* 2000-01. 3,619 crores was actually incurred in 2000-2001,
* 1990-91.
rs.995 crores in 1990-91,
* 1980-81.
198 crores in 1980-81,
* 1970-71. rs.60 crores in 1970-71
* 1960-61.
rs.15 crores in 1960-61

those are mostly budget estimates (and i've rounded off some of them), culled from various budget speeches by the finance ministers of those times, and there'd be very minor revisions at the end of those years. i've quoted figures from the first year of each decade (1960-61, 1970-71, 1980-81, 1990-91, 2000-2001 and the current year, 2009-10) so that we'd get a very general sense of what could be the average spending on education, each year, during any particular decade (50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s and 2000s). after going through the figures for many other years which i am not quoting here (because i don't think they're needed to make the point i'm trying to make-- any reader is welcome to check whatever figures are made available on the site, and please correct me), i've come up with some estimates of i) how much was spent, on an average, in each year in every decade since 1956 and ii) also an estimate of what could be the total amount spent by the government of andhra pradesh in all those years on general, higher and technical education. please note that i might be erring on a higher side, because i'm still trying to give the unnamed estimator a huge benefit of doubt:

1956-60: average spending on education in each year was rs.15 crore (i am taking the higher figure of the budget estimate of 1960-61, the first year of the next decade, as the average because i don't think it'd make much of difference to the total). the total spending on education for the four years (1956-57 until 1959-60) of the 50s comes to rs.60 crores.

1960-70.
average spending on education in each year was rs.35 crores (i am still taking a higher figure, i think) and total spending on education in all the years during the 60s comes to rs.350 crores.

1970-80.
average spending on education in each year was rs.150 crores, and total spending on education in all the years during the 70s comes to rs.1500 crores.

1980-90. average spending on education in each year was rs.600 crores, and total spending on education in all the years during the 80s comes to rs.6000 crores.

1990-2000. average spending on education in each year was rs.2,500 crores (i am still taking the higher figures), and total spending on education in all the years during the 90s comes to rs.25000 crores.

2000-2010. average spending on education in each year was rs.5,500 crores (i am still taking the higher figures), and total spending on education in all the years during the 2000s comes to rs.55000 crores.

what do all those figures add upto? rs.60 crores (total spend in the 50s) + 350 crores (total spend in the 60s) + 1,500 crores (total spend in the 70s) + 6,000 crores (total spend in the 80s) + 25,000 crores (total spend in the 90s) + 55,000 crores (total spend in the 2000s) = rs.87,910 crores. is that half of rs.1,85,441 crores, the figure the unnamed estimator had come up with? no.

the government of andhra pradesh hasn't spent half as much as the figure mentioned in the appeal in all the years since 1956. so forget the veracity of all the rest of the figures pertaining to allocations to the different regions. i am still willing to give the estimator a very long rope: was the estimator using present values of those sums spent in the past? it doesn't say so anywhere in the appeal which is addressed to the prime minister, an economist. nor does it seem likely, looking at the total figure the estimator has come up with. my own view is that if the estimator was using present values, not a paisa was spent on education in telangana, going by his estimate, since around the eighties. i don't think i need to say any more about the quality of that estimate.

but i wonder: how could all these learned, public spirited individuals have signed that appeal without checking the quality of the facts and figures mentioned in it?

Prof. Rama S. Melkote, Rtd. Professor, Osmania University
Prof. E. Revathi, Professor, Kakatiya University
Dr. K. Lalita, Director, Yugantar
Ms. K. Sajaya, Caring Citizens’ Collective
Dr. A. Suneetha, Coordinator, Anveshi Research Centre for Women’s Studies
Ms. Kaneez Fathima, Muslim Forum for Telangana
Ms. Sandhya, President, Progressive Organization of Women
Ms. Vasudha Nagaraj, Advocate
Ms. Mandakini Mallaram, Advocate
Dr. K. Satyalakshmi, Associate Professor, Gandhi Naturopathic Medical College
Mr. Burgula Narsing Rao, Freedom Fighter
Prof. Madabhushi Sridhar, Professor, NALSAR Law University
Mr. Lateef Mohammad Khan, Gen.Secretary, Civil Liberties Monitoring Committee
Mr. K. T. Rama Rao, Member, Andhra Pradesh Assembly
Mr. Vidyasagar Rao, Rtd.Chief Engineer, Andhra Pradesh
Mr. M. Lakshmaiah, Senior Journalist
Mr. Chukka Ramaiah, Eminent Educationist
Mr. Sridhar Reddy, Indian National Congress
Dr. G. Vinod Kumar, Faculty, Law College, Osmania University
Dr. P. Harinath, Professor, Vivek Vardhini College
Mr. S. Jeevan Kumar, President, Human Rights Forum
Mr. Madan Mohan Rao, Senior Journalist
Mr. Sashi Kumar, Development Consultant
Dr. Ananth Maringanti, Journalist
Prof. M. Kodandram, Professor, Osmania University
Mr. D. Sitaram, Senior Journalist
Dr. Vithal Rajan, Member, World Future Council
Dr. R.V. Ramana Murthy, Associate Professor, Hyderabad Central University
Mr. Burgula Vijay, Telangana Development Forum
Ms. Seethalakshmi (Usha), Freelance Researcher and Consultant
Ms. Uma Bhrugubanda, Assistant Professor, English and Foreign Languages University
Dr. Rekha Pappu, Independent Researcher, Hyderabad
Dr. M. M. Vinodini, Dalit Writer
Mr. P.Kishan Rao, Farmer and Engineer, Khammam
Ms. Ravi Kumar, Development Consultant
Prof. D.Vasanta, Professor, Osmania University
Dr. R.Srivatsan, Senior Fellow, Anveshi Research Centre for Women’s Studies
Dr. Mohammad Khaza, Poet and Writer
Mr. Kondala Reddy, Social Activist
Ms. V. Usha Rani, Director, Sannihita Resource Centre for Women
Mr. B. Rameshwarayya, Social Activist
Ms. Gogu Shyamala, Dalit writer
Ms. Joopaka Subadra, Dalit writer
Dr. Surepally Sujatha, Assistant Professor, Satavahana University, Karimnagar
Ms. G. Uma Devi, Rtd. Non-gazetted officer, Hyderabad
Ms. R. Lakshmi, Social Activist
Mr. Rajiv Velicheti, Associate Professor, Hyderabad Central University
Dr. Suguna Rammohan, Professor in Pathology, Kamineni Medical College
Dr. Manguta, Paediatrician
Ms. Burgula Suguna, MPTC, Burgula village, Mahboobnagar district
Dr. Peddi Rama Rao, Associate Professor, Telugu University
Dr. K. Madhavi, Associate Professor, Begumpet,
Mr. Jasraman Singh Grewal, Poet and Film maker
Mr. Diia Rajan, Researcher, Yugantar
Dr. Satish Poduval, Associate Professor, English and Foreign Languages University
Dr. Sarath Davala, Independent Researcher
Ms. Saraswati Kavula, Documentary Film Maker
Mr. Burgula Sudheer, Rtd. SBH officer
Mr. Burgula Dileep, Agriculturalist
Mr. Vommi Ramesh Babu, Journalist and writer
Mr. Burgula Pradeep, Trade Unionist
Mr. Pasham Yadagiri , Senior journalist
Ms. J. Subhadra, Dalit writer
Ms. G Uma Devi , Rtd. Non-gazzetted officer
Dr. Surapally Sujatha, Asst. Professor
Ms. Soumitri, Development Consultant.
Mr. Raghavan, Development Consultant
Mr. Errabelli Siddarth Rao, Advocate
Mr. Sri Harsha Rao, Advocate
Ms. Rohini Rao, Advocate

the hindu, upper caste liberal (which is what most of those signatories are) is a very anxious animal: the race to seem liberal is such an intensely competitive struggle, i guess, that you can't blame them for not bothering to check what they're liberal about.

no, i am not going to blame them for not checking the rest of the very argumentative, many times offensively sectarian, appeal either. i can only admire their blind faith in the cause: who said education is about learning to reason?

19 comments:

browsekid said...

Why isn't the mainstream media or for that matter the academicians in JAC ignorant of simple facts like these? THe movement seems to be relying on border line paranoia more than the actual facts - uneven distribution of the water is one legitimate concern I can understand and sympathize about. But treating fellow state people like some kind of exploiters or dictators is only dividing the people for the selfish interests of a few handful. Again - thanks for pointing these facts- though I doubt if there's a single leader who can erase this line of division now - so maybe the divide is inevitable - I just hope we can be civil about it.

gaddeswarup said...

Compared to many other discussions, there is a surprising amount of display of data Telangana discussions, one example is the discussion in Mallikarjuna Sharma'a blog:
http://viplavasandesam.blogspot.com/2009/12/separation-is-no-solution-by-i.html
Hopefully, this will lead to more reliable data and ways of studying it.
One surprise: I have seen very few comments (except one by Ved)comparing the development in Telangana with the districts in the old Hyderabad state which went to other states.
I too feel that there is uneven distribution of water resources, part of it is anecdotal evidence from engineers who worked on one of the feasibility projects.

Reality said...

Well done Kufr . You have once again blown the lid on the ridiculous claims made by Telangana fanatics. It is appalling to see the way the speak of andhras who are also Indian citizens. They start any discussion with Andhra colonizers,imperialists,exploiters etc. Andhras have become worse than British. People should realise by now what a dangerous tool hatred is.

Also from your analysis ,do you have the regional split ? If you have ,use present values and try to give break up on education spend in each region ?

srinivas said...

I don't have any data handy at this time to agree or disagree with the Telangana Forum claims about inter-regional educational expenditures. But in regards to your use of the state budget allocation reports for education to raise questions about Telangana Forum claims, would like to point out that your accounting doesn't seem to take into account all the funding sources, for the reasons that:

1. Education expenditure is both a State and Center concurrent subject. And typically, 80% of the expenditure comes from State and 20% from Centre. You have only counted for state allocations.

2. Typically, expenditure on education is not fully accounted by the education budget allocation alone. It has other non-education sources too.

3. And budget allocation is different from expenditure. For more exact numbers, researchers typically use data from "Analysis of Budgeted Expenditure on Education" annual reports. For example, the AP education expenditure numbers reported in Appendix I table of "Indian Education Scene and the Public Gap" (Shariff and P K Ghosh,
http://www.epw.in/epw/uploads/articles/6610.pdf) - are higher than the budget numbers you have used.

So, my guess is if we compile and add up all the numbers, the TOTAL calculated from the figures quoted by the Telangana forum folks (again, am not talking about the inter-regional distribution figures) may not be that off. Given that amongst the signatories there are knowledgeable social scientists, doubt if they have cooked up the figures.

In regards to other bloggers comments about river data, would like to point to HRF pamphlets and Balagopal articles both in regards to Krishna water redistribution struggles, and opposing Polavaram and Pulichintala. They have made a rational argument with enough data that Telangana got a raw deal in water sharing and irrigation projects. Please see balagopal.org and humanrightsforum.org for the relevant articles.

Bhanu Prasad said...

Kufr,

If any separatist still needs some data on amount spent on education, one has to refer to Mr.Nalamothu's myteluguroots.com website.

Most of the liberal ideology is about victimhood. Nothing less nothing more. Hence these liberal professors are mentally challenged to appreciate the ideals of hard work. They sit in their universities churning out "I am a victim" lectures.

@srinivas gaaru,

If you are referring to funds from centre, telangana would win hands down. Telangana region has one of the best universities of the southern India. Of course it is a rational choice. It would never be possible to allocate such amount of land in Coastal andhra.

@Reality,

First of all our wealth was created by our hard work. If not today next generation of telanganites will realize the truth. Of course few fellow's are beyond retrieval, such as Sujai and his sycophants

ved said...


@Srinivas wrote..
And budget allocation is different from expenditure. For more exact numbers, researchers typically use data from "Analysis of Budgeted Expenditure on Education" annual reports. For example, the AP education expenditure numbers reported in Appendix I table of "Indian Education Scene and the Public Gap" (Shariff and P K Ghosh,
http://www.epw.in/epw/uploads/articles/6610.pdf) - are higher than the budget numbers you have used.


Your are right. The budget allocation in the last few years was totally exaggerated from the actual expenditure. In their eagerness to show a budget of Rs100,000 crores (first state to do so) every allocation is inflated. The actual spending was way short for paucity of funds. It is even more ridiculous that the current govt too is contemplating a budget north of Rs 100,000 crores. Kufr used this number generously and extrapolated the same for all the previous years. There is no way AP govt has spent Rs50,000 crores on education in the last five years.

I can't wait for the report of Srikrishna committee to find this truth. However, in the absence of these figures we can only do qualitative analysis as Kufr has done. We can also look at 2007 ap human development report to see how literacy and education is performing in AP. Once again I don't see any discrimination based on region.

kuffir said...

browsekid,

leaders don't erase lines, they can only draw them. this line isn't one hundredth as strong as the media or the separatists would make it seem like. and these few months and years are only a blip in the collective history of the telugus.

swarup garu,

this focus on data that you see now is happening because the separatists have managed to build a strong case for discrimination by wide dissemination of some select data over the last 15 years. the actual figures can be easily verified, but what one needs to be more worried about is that a) why only select data was used and b) how could people who are supposed to pursue objectivity in everything, like professors and researchers etc, participate in such divisive campaigns?

kuffir said...

reality,

thanks. more than the details of allocations etc, i'd like you to note the coldly cynical way in which public data, which can be easily verified, is being used.

srinivas,

thanks for your detailed comment. but a 15-20% increase in yearly spending, coming from the centre and non-education related depts, would only mean a 15-20% increase in the TOTAL spending, not a doubling of it.

i've an ordinary citizen's interest in education, have written about it earlier, and i do know that not all money spent on education comes through the education ministries/depts in the state. but all the additional contributions, including those from the centre, don't add more than an additional 10-15% at best.

the appeal was essentially a litany of complaints of alleged discrimination at the hands of successive ruling administrations at the state level, not at the centre. so my focus was on the state.

but the focus of the separatists on the economic/social content of the policies pursued by the rulers at the state, not the centre which is also party to the formulation and practice of these policies, should tell you something about the broad motivations of the separatists: that they do not want broad structural change in the economic/social content of public policy. this isn't a so-called people's movement.

the cynical, self-serving use of select data, without reference to such basic contextual inputs as source, time, prices etc, confirms the suspicions that this movement is led by a certain powerful class of people very anxious to make a very cynical, self-serving point, and the so-called 'eminent social scientists' you talk about form a very articulate section of this class.

when eminent social scientists indulge in such blatantly irresponsible, in the light of the division it could cause among large sections of the people, use of their eminence to disseminate such incomplete, to put it mildly, information about matters that concern crores of people, do you think they can't be accused of 'cooking it'?

this is bazaar gossip, and one doesn't need to be an 'eminent' social scientist to recognize it as such.

kuffir said...

ved,

yes, on all broad hd indices, a.p., lags behind all southern states and many northern states. the so-called discrimination as practised by successive ruling administrations isn't along regional lines, it is against the dalitbahujans, women and other weaker sections of all regions.

srinivas said...

kuffir,

I was trying to understand the reasons for difference in the numbers you quote and as reported in the appeal, with the assumption that either side, may have their own interpretation, but is not out to misrepresent data. I still standby that assumption. I still remain unconvinced with your assertion that the discrepancy is driven by ulterior motives. May be you are right or wrong, but would like to wait till I see enough data on that. Having known and seen many of the social scientists mentioned in the appeal work at grassroots level and amongst ordinary people, both in Telangana and other parts of the state and on many public issues for several decades, I am not ready to bad-mouth it as 'bazzar gossip'.

To keep myself transparent, let me state where I stand on the larger issue. I believe that - as someone with enough familiarity and interest in AP grassroots politics of more than two decades - that there is a sense of discrimination amongst the people of the region, even amongst the ones who may or may not agree that separation is the right solution. And think there is enough supporting hard and anecdotal data in this regard, even outside to the litreature put out by the separatists. For example, someone like Balagopal supported and has written about it from a purely rights and fairness perspective. And also today, a good number of progressive intellectuals (except that of CPM) of different kinds and writers from the Telangana, Andhra and Rayalaseema (including the ones you quote elsewhere - Srinivasulu, Ilaiah) are supporting separate Telangana. What's motivating them?

Let me also say that, support for a separate state doesn't mean support for many other things that seem to be assumed by default.
By no means it is an endorsement of the KCR-style power politics or his understanding or linear narration of the region history. Or denying that Telangana elite has been any less opportunistic or is any less culpable for Telangana backwardness than their Andhra counterparts they all blame it on. Or that separation resolves all the people issues overnight. Or denying the combined history of the peoples of all the three regions and denying their significant contributions to Telangana region. Or exonerating Nizam, denying the feudal past and denying the rich communist struggles in the region.
(Like Kaloji and many old time-communists who were staunch Vishalandhra supporters then, today feel that only thru separation, Telangana ordinary lives can become better. Before brushing off them as self-serving and brainwashed, please try to understand what has led to this sentiment. Think it deserves better explanation than "unemployed politicians").

If we are really interested in issues, think it's worthwhile to reflect upon what could have real supporters of SamakyaAndhra done to avoid this ugly situation we are in today. Forget Telanganites, even if we care to listen to the folks from Northern Andhra and Rayalseema (or even the dalits of coastal districts) about the problems of their regions, castes and the issues they raise, like various HMTV Dasha-Disha programs, we can hear concerns of neglect in all the non-Coastal regions. And how it can lead to sense of separatism. To date, I don't hear any responsible Samakyavadi acknowledging or seriously reflecting on these.

Kiran said...

Srinivas,
There are equal number if not more of professors, social scientists, social workers, christian missonaries in kostha-rayalaseema universtities who vehemently oppose t separatists. Clearly credibility does not come here by bandying the academic credentials of "professors" etc.

BTW why is that people of UA and rayalaseema also oppose t movement if t movement is about "neglect" or "injustice" ?

Kiran said...

Kufr,

Caste hindus love this movement as it provides a wonderful opportunity for them to be on the forefront of politics while glossing over their sins of castiesm. These people, who are experts in dishing out injustice day in and day out can now thanks to this stupid movement claim to be fighting against mythical and manufactured injustice.

Imagine dora KCR/dora kondadaram reddy/jana reddy/ nagam reddy/panthulu chukka ramiah fighting against "injustice" and on behalf of dalits, women and minorities on telangana side and chowdhary lagadapati, chowdhary kavuri, panthulu vundavalli fighting on andhra side against "injustice". we all know what happened to devender goud and manda krishna madiga in this "movement". Though to be honest the chowdhuries and panthulu on andhra side were only compelled to enter and do stand for unity and did not show any obscene enthusiasm to whip these vulgar passions - nevertheless these movements allow the limelight to be shifted from social justice.

Sridhar said...

Srinivas: You seem to ignore the fact that the estimates presented in the letter did not have any references attached. And you suggest that the figures should not be called as 'cooked up' just because it was signed by a number of respected people. I am not sure if that sounds very logical.

You seem to believe that the 'sense of discrimination' is true and hence the separatists fight need to be respected. If the injustices and indiscrimination are so true and if only a separate state could be a just solution I wonder why are the separatists against the Sri Krishna committee doing a comprehensive study. A decision of this magnitude be free from a scientific and nonpartisan inquest into the contentious matter? Why are any such rational attempts asked to be seen as unnecessary and be overridden by the 'undisputed' nature of Telangana sentiment?

srinivas said...

Sridhar,
Thanks.Agree there are no references given for education data. I also would like to see them. I was only cautioning against hasty conclusions, not that they cannot be wrong or that we have to accept them without any questioning.

Maybe there should be more discussion about the data for which there are references, like for example Ch Hanumantha Rao economic analysis.

I am all for the SK committee. (no different from all other committees and reports before to now). Certainly the committee has people of good intellect and integrity. So hoping that the exercise is not a wishy-washy one or a mere delaying and diversionary tactic and the report will be made public - and want to understand the sentiments and concerns of the people of all the regions - I would like them to closely examine all the data, to as granular and detail level they can get to at regional and district levels, and the claims of either side of the debate ( certainly I have my concerns, based on past experiences, on how much access to real data the committee can get to, given thata a) since 73, tabulation of region wise expenditure has not been done; b) the noisy nature of the data in regards to Hyderabad and neighboring districts c) and in the recent 10-15 years, all the bogus promises and allocations, false foundations made in the name of "Jalayagnam"; and d) how creative both the state and center govts. can get in spinning the data on expenditures and development and, when cornered, how obfuscating and secretive they can be). My gut feeling is that, at the end of the day - the report has to be based on the feeling of the committee, based on some hard and some empirical data - and the decision has to be a political one.

srinivas said...

Kiran,

Thanks. Sure, agree that there are real people, groups on the other side of the debate too with equally genuine concerns and fears about bifurcation. And I think they have to addressed. I may be wrong, but it's my observation that in Telangana areas, public movements demanding region rights (be it about water sharing, university funding etc). and for separation itself have been there for several years now.

As far the concerns of neglect in Rayalaseema and Northern Andhra - please hear to the comments made by the speakers in Dasha-Disha programs. Rayalseema folks seem to be interested in combined state, mainly for the reason that they feel that region interests are better served in the combined state with Telangana included rather than in a state with only the Andhra region; and suspicious of Telangana elite acting no different from coastal Andhra elite in denying them water resources. (Please listen to Chandrasekhar; and look up C. Ramachandraiah's article in AJ). Similarly, please hear to what someone like Vangapandu or K. Sekhar warn that if their region issues are not addressed now Kalinga Andhra may go Telangana route.

In analysing movements and personalities, you seem to using caste labels (no different from separatist logic) than really their stand on or background in social justice movements. Apart from caste-identities, I don't see any difference in the politics of Devender Goud (ask folks in Ranga Reddy Dist.) to that of KCR, Lagadapati, Kavuri, Rayapati, Jana Reddi or Damodar Reddi. About Krishna Madiga politics, I am not informed enough to comment. Kondandram, Ramaiah (or someone like ABK, Chandrasekhar on other side) have long history of participated in more social movements than you seem to be aware of. If it's against dalitbahujan interests, how come dalit leaders and intellectuals like Gaddar, Laxmaiah, K Mallaiah, Yadagiri, Andesri and Venkanna are vocal about separate Telangana.

And I am curious - how come the caste disparities, which were no less prevalent then, and the caste identities of the folks involved didn't become an issue with Andhra separation from Tamilnadu, are now being portrayed as a concern that has be to addressed beforehand, in reference to Telangana. ( Or if I can dare to speculate, is it a hangover of "Telangana Dora" image and romanticization of Telangana feudal past and him being a bigger monster forever than their more sophisticated Andhra counterparts.
Even without denying the Reddy/Velama dominance and that has to fought, would like to point out that in today's Telangana, the issues and relations are much more complicated, multi-dimensional and nuanced than that of pure Dora-slave of 40s or 50s).

If anything, in the last 30 years, I saw more caste-based mobilization in coastal andhra region as compared to more class-based mobilization elsewhere, Telangana included.

Kiran said...

Srinivas,

what are your past experiences on data - you have not listed any. And why should lack of region based data should prove to be such an impediment when regions are clearly defined by districts.

My demand is a bit older one is a rather silly arguement . There is a demand for last 60 years to put kakinada on main trunk railway route which I belive is still not met. perhaps t movement should wait before that gets resolved.And infact unlike t separatism which was resolved in 1956 when t assembly passed a resolution endorsing the merger of telangana region with andhra state and again in 1971 when t agitation dissolved with chenna reddy saying there is no longer any demand and again in 1973 when jai andhra agitation was engulfing seemandhra telangana was cool as cucumber though the movement is in separatist interests the kakinada agitation is consistent with one gentlemen protesting every day for last 23 years or so i heard.

There is no comparison with the linguistic separate Andhra movement with the switch on and off t movement. And belive me there is likely to be more caste mobilization in telangana in future and infact if this separate t becomes a reality both the "dora" and the "banchan" will suffer.

sravan said...

While you are really exhibitting your wild apprehensions about a prospective upper caste hegemony in a separate telangana state, you seem to be oblivious about the Andhra Pradesh State where only two upper castes from Seemandhra have been ruling the roost for the past 6 decades.
In fact the separation of Andhra from Madras and later merger of Andhra with Telangana have strong basis of conflicting factions based on the upper castes in Andhra and Seema.
Before Telangana merged with Andhra it has seen a major agrarian rebellion against persisting social disparities.
Telangana has better history of fighting upper caste hegemony than Seema and Andhra.
You should worry about the Upper caste domination in Separate Andhra than in Seaparate telangana.

Rama Mohan said...

Visit for the telangana favor sites
http://lifestyle-india.blogspot.com/2010/03/top-telangana-favor-sites.html

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