i blame all of these people: prof. jayashankar, retired vice chancellor of the kakatiya university who thinks in urdu, speaks telugu and writes in english but doesn't seemed to have gained any significant help from his knowledge of any of those languages in expanding the very narrow horizons of his mind. prof. m. kodandram, osmania university, who proudly says his students, like arjun of the mahabharata, can only see the bird's eye (telangana) now and nothing else. or prof.haragopal, now retired, of hcu who will have to explain now how 'deep-rooted' the demand for a separate state is when those committing suicides are mostly students who were born nearly four decades after telangana was merged into the state of andhra pradesh. and dozens of other professors, hundreds of teachers. some of them have been singing in classrooms: ' my food's telangana, my battle's telangana, my home's telangana, my play's telangana, my work's telangana, my war's telangana, my way's telangana, my destination is telangana'.
what we're seeing now are only the very early results of a concerted effort to purge a whole generation of students of all other defining characteristics (of identity) except shared geography. an obviously bewildered kancha ilaiah had observed a few days ago that suicides aren't a part of telangana's protest culture. what will this lead to in the future? i hope the teachers have a cure for the epidemic they've unleashed, but i doubt it. many of them have alluded to the glorious struggle of students taking over cuba. others have recalled assam. and whose blood shall pay for their dreams?
over 350 of the 369 students who were killed during the telangana agitation of 1969 were obcs, dalits and adivasis. the numbers haven't changed the slightest now. and one of the major grievances of the agitators in 1969 and now has been that government jobs were unfairly distributed along sub-regional lines. but the truth is that nearly 70% of all government jobs in andhra pradesh, like elsewhere in india, had actually gone to a few upper castes (like the brahmins, reddies, velamas, vaishyas, rajus and sections of the kapus ) from all regions. who stole the jobs?
ilaiah says:
In this society, regional agitations are most suited for stopping social transformation as these agitations create mass hysteria. In Telangana, Andhra and Rayalaseema enough mass hysteria has been generated in recent times.what social transformation? most of the teachers i had named earlier seem to have devised a new opiate for the young dalit, obc masses.
Posts
21 comments:
Conveniently ignored (cherry picking, eh?) in your post are the staunch pro-Telangana dalit leaders who have been fighting for a separate State for at least a few decades.
I hope you heard of Gaddar. If not, a quick google search will reveal that he is ardently pro-Telangana.
Madiga's form probably 90% of all SCs in Telangana. They are staunchly pro-Telangana. Now would be a good time to lookup Manda Krishna Madiga, their leader/representative.
Similarly, Malas form a majority (prolly around 90%) of SCs in Andhra.
Madiga's have been consistently fighting for Telangana, as they are severely under-represented. Malas and Madigas are part of the same group, SC and have to compete against each other. This led to Mala domination (Andhra) on all fronts.
Six of the eight Scheduled Caste Secretaries to the government, eighteen of the twenty officers of the Indian Administrative Service, eleven of the thirteen officers of the Indian Police Service, seven of the eight advocates of the High Court,sixteen of the nineteen officials of Commercial Taxes,twenty of the twenty four officials of the Andhra Pradesh Road Transport Corporation,thirty two of the fifty revenue officers,422 of the 475 doctors, 402 of the 487 engineers and the only Scheduled Caste judge of the High Court are Mala.”
The same disparity has been found in the occupancy of political offices as well. “The APMCclaimsthat five of the eight Scheduled Caste Members ofParliament from the state,33 of the 40 members of the state legislature,three of the four ministers in the state cabinet,the three Chairmen of the Zilla Parishads and the chief of the Andhra Pradesh Congress Congress Committee are Mala.
SC population was 105.95 lakh,of which Madigas constitute 58 lakh,whereas Malas constitute 47.45 lakh. However, of the total 15 percent of reservation, Madigas were not able to secure even 2 percent of benefits in education and employment opportunities provided by the government and the rest of the benefits are cornered by the Malas. According to the sources, nearly 85 percent of elite jobs are occupied by the Malas whereas only 15 percent secured by the Madigas despite their large proportionate of numerical strength. The 80 percent and 20 percent of the elite courses like medicine, engineering are taken up by the Malas and Madigas respectively.
It is clearly evident that SCs in Telangana will gain significant ground and they have been aggressively fighting for it.
And the Andhra Dalits (Malas) are rooting for separation as they would also gain signficant ground politically and otherwise.
Karem Sivaji of Mala Mahanadu, Mallela Venkatrao of Mala Mahasabha and Raja Sundar Babu of AP Dalit Sangharshan Samiti, addressing a press conference in the Capital, said division of AP would turn the marginalised SCs into key political players in both states.
Dalits on both sides are staunchly for bifurcation and you are ignoring this fact.
nearly 70% of all government jobs in andhra pradesh
Must be your Andhra govt which is violating the self-imposed obligation of 50% reservation.
In Andhra Pradesh, 25% of educational institutes and government jobs for BCs, 15% for SCs, 6% for STs and 4% for Muslims.
I don't have accurate caste census, but this seems to closely match the caste denominations.
15% reservation for SCs matches the matches their 16% population
scheduled caste population
In Telangana it would definitely benefit the SCs as the 15% reservation is completely useless to them in the current state.
4% reservation to muslims may be a bit less than their population, but then again Muslims are not part of the caste system to claim discrimination against them. If you look up history of India, you will realize that they've ruled India for quite a few centuries.
Backward Castes make up quite 46% of the population and they have 25% reservation.
It is important for you to remember that the reservation quota is in addition to what they can get in open quota.
For example, if SCs can compete on basis of merit and get 10% of the positions (education/employment), it wouldn't be eat into the quota. This means that their total would be 25%. 10% in open and 15% reserved just for them.
While we do not see the above happening in SCs and SCs, BCs most often comfortably come through in open quotas.
Caste problems are in a different domain, geographic political demarcations are in a different domain. If you conflate the 2 domains and associated problems and try to solve a problem in a different domain, you will only end up confusing yourself and others.
what we're seeing now are only the very early results of a concerted effort to purge a whole generation of students of all other defining characteristics (of identity) except shared geography.
Do write more on this. What identity? What are the properties of that identity?
Also, what is:
make geography a religion.
Geography, a land with fixed boundaries. What do you mean by religion?
How is geography becoming a religion?
idler,
of course, i haven't heard of gaddar. isn't gaddar the dalit kcr had characterized as 'pani paata lenodu' on the very first day of his fast? i remember he had also called him other, less courteous names.. so much for the respect, concern and love of the uc separatists for dalits..
and yes, i do remember certain trs and other separatists had gheraoed krishna madiga a few years ago when he had dared to speak out against the 'dora' leading them..
as for cherry picking, in this particular context,isn't that about picking select data you like and not presenting the whole picture?
i talked about the whole picture. there were more than 70,000 unfilled (backlog) jobs, reserved for sc/sts, as of a decade ago. the figure would've definitely climbed up higher by now. and unfilled jobs reserved for obcs are much more.. who stole the jobs?
i'm quite sure many of those who took away dalit/obc jobs in the past most probably have very passionately patriotic children in the u.s., who'd like to 'free' telangana now. i hope they're holding bandhs, burning buses, and committing suicides to save telangana.
but i'm also sure the telangana they talk about has nothing in common with the telangana gaddar and krishna madiga want.
isn't gaddar the dalit kcr had characterized as 'pani paata lenodu' on the very first day of his fast? i remember he had also called him other, less courteous names.. so much for the respect, concern and love of the uc separatists for dalits..
and yes, i do remember certain trs and other separatists had gheraoed krishna madiga a few years ago when he had dared to speak out against the 'dora' leading them..
This is more about you taking offense on behalf of someone else.
as for cherry picking, in this particular context,isn't that about picking select data you like and not presenting the whole picture?
It is about making extrordinary claims based on falsification and tenuous irrelevant links and flimsy grounds.
What has a suicide got to do with caste reservations? In your world, world+dog is related to caste system and its injustices.
i talked about the whole picture. there were more than 70,000 unfilled (backlog) jobs, reserved for sc/sts, as of a decade ago. the figure would've definitely climbed up higher by now. and unfilled jobs reserved for obcs are much more.. who stole the jobs?
Yes.. who stole the jobs? How is it relevant to the suicide and Telangana?
As I said before, difference problems are addressed in different domains. You need to know where to ask each question. Answers to compiler optimization questions are not found in Religious studies.
i'm quite sure many of those who took away dalit/obc jobs in the past most probably have very passionately patriotic children in the u.s., who'd like to 'free' telangana now. i hope they're holding bandhs, burning buses, and committing suicides to save telangana.
More irrelevant stuff and poisoning the well against NRIs to discredit and exclude them from discussion. Do you have any data to support your claims? The evidence is clear that SC opportunities (Madiga, Telangana) in were taken over by Mala (Mala, Andhra). What data do you have to substantiate your claims that uc/fc castes ONLY from Telangana (definitely not from Andhra) took away those opportunities, when the framework clearly gave them a reserved percentage.
but i'm also sure the telangana they talk about has nothing in common with the telangana gaddar and krishna madiga want.
This confusion (or mismatch of expectations) is in you and not in Gaddar or Krishna Madiga who are staunchly pro-Telangana. They have been and are.
one student commits suicide to prevent lakhs from returning to exams.. there's something seriously wrong with indian teachers who make geography a religion.
You start off with a misleading argument.
Bhagat Singh throws bombs into the corridor of Assembly - He is a freedom fighter, revolutionary. Narayuana Rao threw a bomb at Nijam's convoy - He is a hero. Gandhi resorts to his emotional blackmail scheme to get things done - He is 'Mahatma'. What makes the suicide of the student we are talking about different from the above?
As for blaming their teachers- I agree Prof. Jayashankar, KCR etc., are dunderheads and chicken-hearts! Instead of being the champions of the cause that Telangana is, they became a burden with their unpredictable behavior, meaninless talk. They are as good as your average Andhra/Rayalaseema politician, or for that matter any Indian politician. But, how exactly does that make the Telangana Movement uncalled for? Its like saying that India should accept every pact that is against them on the global scene because their politicians are corrupt.
I can understand Kanche Ilaiah's bewilderment. He is so bewildered with his own identity that he had to write an unscientific, non intellectual criticism called "why I am not a Hindu" to soothe his nerves. Why, I am from Raayalaseema and I see too many *ordinary* people bewildered at what is happening in the state. They are bewildered, not so obviously, that why are people being forced to stay together. It is not natural, when people want to go - let them go. Its just another state, not a country!
idler,
i hope you're not going to continue to believe volume shall make up for lack of substance in your arguments.
i've pointed out quite clearly there has been structural discrimination against the dalits and obcs in andhra pradesh. in the specific context of jobs, dalits and obcs, from all regions, have obtained far less jobs than the provisions of reservations guarantee to them. which means upper caste candidates from all regions have stolen jobs from dalits and obcs. there might be some variations along regional lines, but they aren't significant enough to contradict the larger truth of caste based distribution of jobs.
this kind of shortchanging is not unique to andhra pradesh. it happens in all state govts and in the central govt and the public sector. for instance, many dalit organizations have pointed out that there are nearly 1-2 million jobs reserved for the sc/st in the central govt, which have remained unfilled over the last one decade.
there are huge gaps between official figures and actual figures when it comes to jobs reserved and filled.. you've been quoting stray unofficial figures from somewhere around 1991.. the population of the malas and madigas and their positions in govt jobs, and the unfilled jobs-- all those figures have changed. do you really expect me to seriously believe you understand the issues involved?
and do you really understand why you support the demand for a separate telangana? if you think caste and telangana are separate 'domains'-- why don't you ask krishna madiga or gaddar if they think so?
they expect a new state will bring in structural change, that it will eliminate caste and class based exploitation. i don't. for them, caste and telangana are inextricably linked. i don't believe formation of a new state will address the problem of caste based exploitation. but for you, caste and telangana are separate 'domains'. so it is with kcr and a lot of upper caste intellectuals and politicians supporting telangana-- i hope gaddar and krishna madiga realize how unimportant the elimination of caste based exploitation and discrimination is to the votaries of separation soon.
lastly: nris should be included in the discussion--why? they've already voted against india with their feet.
rk,
thanks for your comment. i hope you'll comment again when you're sure about what you wish to say.
i hope you're not going to continue to believe volume shall make up for lack of substance in your arguments.
Thats your bread and butter. Not mine. :)
There is caste, discrimination exists, dalits are discriminated in AP, rest of India, jobs left unfulfilled. These are trivial and universal truths. You've tied all this to a suicide and Telangana.
kuffir:
One hopes these "teachers" have consciences that will some day prick them into thinking about what they're doing to their students. Plenty of students desperately want to resume what they're in college for - an education. But, as Prof. Kodandaram was saying today, "SavAniki hakkulunnAyi". Rights which students who wish to sit the exams clearly don't have.
Kuffir,
Sarcasm? not done right. try again! I promise its worth the effort, you'll see I can probably teach you a lesson or two ;)
What were you trying to convey with this post, Kuffir? That Prof. Jayashankar etc., are corrupting OU students and in someway are responsible for the suicides? That its not just you that are blessed to grasp that truth, but His Excellency Ilaih too supports your view or vice versa?
I am sure about what I want to say, Kuffir. Apparently it makes no sense to you, which does not surprise me, so lemme simplify it for you. I politely said your explanations SUCK! Please excuse me for being polite when it was not necessary, will you- my friend? :)
rk,
thanks again.
ss,
'One hopes these "teachers" have consciences that will some day prick them into thinking about what they're doing to their students.'
they're on some kind of a high... i don't know how they explain to themselves strange events like students dying in dozens every week. those kind of numbers would raise alarm even in places like palestine, i think.
we need cultural inputs here: watch mukhamukham. read srikant verma.
yes?
SB, Thanks for the cultural intervention, read Verma like a soldier, an immigrant, a refugee subject –all wise, thoughtful and pondering geography as a concept in the head. All these voices are manipulated by lords, kings, commanders and whathaveyou. The latter, though, own geography as a tangible non-fictional concept, forever out of reach for the subjects. This voice is absent in the 21 poems.
Verma’s Magadh is implicit in kuffir’s post/s, deciphering the manipulator’s Magadh and laying out the fictional and non-fictional elements, I see here as the explicit expression (tough job! Glad it is being attempted) .
Did not see mukhamukam… maybe it deals with the issue of overturning hierarchies, will look for it. Thanks again.
Kaffir,
Also, Kancha Illiah is a strong proponent of splitting states. He wants Telangana to be formed first before other states are broken up.
The formation of linguistic states itself was based on wrong premises. The assumption that regional languages would develop as globally competitive and the development of the linguistic states would depend on the development of the provincial languages without creating their own nationalist aspirations is wrong. The most advanced linguistic states like Tamil Nadu and West Bengal developed major contradictions with the Centre. But their ruling elite also got Anglicised. There is a contradiction in the very basic idea of forming linguistic states and they remaining loyal to Pan Indian ruling elite, which developed as a very advanced Anglicised social force.
All this has created a linguistic colonialism within India. This needs to be broken by reformulating the states more as small and compact administrative units in which English and the regional languages should develop with equal priority.
The best way, therefore, is to break all big linguistic states and form small administrative states wherein English gets equal status with its regional language. That will produce a Pan Indian English speaking intellectual force from every village that can claim its place in provincial and federal politics and administration and at the same time it will have commitment to the Indian nation undercutting the regional parochial tendencies.
The states reorganisation would not be on the ground of language. For example, the present Telangana demand is not worked out based on this larger context. Whether Telangana becomes an independent state now or some time later is not the issue. Breaking Andhra Pradesh into two or three administratively small and compact states is necessary. The united Andhra Pradesh failed the people on many accounts. The Telangana question should be an entry point to break all big unviable linguistic states.
Best,
Idler.
sb,
thanks for those much needed references.
anu,
thoughtful comment, thanks.
idler,
did i say ilaiah opposed smaller states? i'd said, gaddar's or krishna madiga's telangana differs radically from kcr's conception. ilaiah's idea of small states is another approach altogether. but thanks for your comment.
anu, yes, when i reread those poems i was reminded of kuffir's posts, which is why i thought i'd link to them. a little confused when you said 'the latter' - did you mean the immigrant or the refugee-subject? i read it first as 'refugee subject' but i think i haven't understood what you said.
mukhamukham - no. that was for other reasons. the (cynical) uses of martyrdom, mainly, but i also need to see it again.
kuffir, after mailing you i thought i'd better post it here only.
'i read it first as 'refugee subject' but i think i haven't understood what you said.'
SB,
no i meant the manipulator/ruling class's magadh/hyderabad/delhi/london is a non-fictional, tangibly beneficial geographic concept. They make it visible to the refugee/perpetually displaced person (real and in the head) in confusing formats, out of necessity to keep it ‘real’ for themselves(ruling class)and ‘fictional’ for the subjects. A complex network of fictional stories and non-fictional facts are meshed in almost inseparable weaves cloaking these geographic entities.
Verma expertly handles the 'fictional' from the refugee subject's viewpoint. The subject here does not address the non-fictional origins of the fiction. His philosophical questions of geography as a fluid dream is; as one who can never be a decision maker. He gives no agency to himself as one who is manipulated. Or that he is waging a war or claiming history and geography on behalf of the ruling class is not even a subtext. His preoccupation is with the residual fictional land that he is forever heir to.
As both fiction and non-fiction tools are deployed to mobilize the refugee/soldier to wage war and spill blood, it is tougher to discern these geographies. Kuffir’s posts attempts this I think; what are the ruling class’s geography and the soldier’s geography? Where and how do they differ? They also give agency to the soldier, is he manipulated or is he emerging as a negotiator?
Whether the student died for the fictional or the real Magadh, we can wonder for philosophical reasons. But the immediacy of the post for me is, if he attained agency via the terrible act of using his body as the last weapon – then it does not take any leap of imagination for me to see the body strapped with explosives –geography and religion? And would we not then equate the above named teachers and professors to religious and other fanatics who rationalize such acts, always towards a refugee’s fictional gain?
anu: that is a fantastic reading of the text. thank you.
Post a Comment