30/01/10

colonization 101

Q: Most of us in US came from India for better lives. We may be taking away some of the jobs that might have gone to local people in US. Is it not the same in Telangana? How can we protest Andhra migrants taking away our jobs and resources?
A: When people move from poor regions/countries to rich regions/countries it is called immigration in search of livelihood. But when people from richer regions/countries go to poorer regions/countries, it is called colonization. For example British came to India for colonizing. Telangana movement is not against poor Andhra people coming in search of livelihood. But it is against elites of Andhra who come to Telangana to rob the resources and divert them to Andhra region. When people come to US for jobs and education, they follow rules and laws set by the local people. But when Andhra colonizers come to Telangana they violated every law and agreement on the books. They could do it because of they control the power structure. That is not the case here in US.
from the faq page of telangana development forum. tried to imagine a possible conversation between a curious visitor to the site (say 'a') and one of the tdf members (say 'q'):

a: how does one measure a poorer region/country?
q: when the region is rich in resources like telangana. the colonisers from andhra wanted to rob the resources.
a: so, indians migrating to the united states are colonisers? because the united states has larger reserves of oil, coal, natural gas, and fresh water resources etc than india?
q: the u.s., is a richer region/country because it has a higher gdp.
a: but you said, elsewhere, hyderabad was a rich city, and telangana had surplus revenues before merger?
q: yes, but taking jobs away from the locals even in a rich city is colonization.
a: so, indians taking away jobs from the locals in a rich u.s. city are colonisers?
q: no, you can't call them colonisers because they are not flouting any laws.
a: there have been regular complaints of flouting of laws. for instance, check this news report.
q: well, that's only a few jobs. besides, we're only doing the work the lazy americans can't.
a: the migrants in telangana used to wave the same excuse.
q: see? that's their colonising mentality.
a: but you said you had nothing against people who came looking for livelihood?
q: no, we have nothing against them.
a: it's only those who bring industrial investments to telangana you don't like?
q: yes, they're colonisers who rob our resources.
a: but they create jobs.
q: we don't want their jobs.
a: yes, obviously. you've jobs in the u.s. what about those young people who live in telangana?
q: they should fight for a separate telangana. that's a full time job too.
a: yes, but how will they live without jobs?
q: they could invite industrial investments from outsiders.
a: you mean colonisers?
q: no, investors from everywhere.
a: even from richer regions/countries?
q: yes.
a: but you said when people from richer regions/countries go to poorer regions/countries, it is called colonization.
q: ok. they should invite investors from only poorer regions.
a: like north coastal andhra, rayalaseema?
q: or sudan, nepal.
a: what if no one from those countries shows any interest in investing?
q: they should go to even poorer countries.
a: how about you guys making some investments?
q: coming from a rich country like the u.s., to invest here? that'd be colonization.

19 comments:

Bhanu Prasad said...

Kuffir,

ROFL!Lol.....you hit the nail on it's head.

Telangana Development Forum is a hypocritical organization. Nothing more nothing less

T[-]E Pr()DiGiSt said...

Who the hell is talking about private sector jobs???

And the injustice was in the government sector jobs when they were the only jobs available

This is like chopping of a mans leg when he couldnt run because he was limping

T[-]E Pr()DiGiSt said...

@kufr

And this is nice way to counter people>> If you cannot oppose the cause pick out the people who you think are leading it>> That speaks a lot about your pseudo intellectuality

Space Bar said...

:D heh! nice.

gaddeswarup said...

Kuffir,
At some stage, can you please write a bit about Anant Maringanti's article in EPW. He seems to cover some interesting points but some of the discussion is a bit obtuse to me since I do not know many of the facts, particularly about the political developments in the Mandal headquarters. Thanks.
Swarup

Bhanu Prasad said...

--And the injustice was in the government sector jobs when they were the only jobs available---

That is just one aspect of picture, even if these people get governement jobs it will be a miniscule percentage < 5. This is not a wholesome picture of the entire state.

Kiran said...

The tragedy is that such puerile arguments are now consumed widely in AP. One wonders whether this is the same population which once welcomed revolutionary communist ideas, a population which is generally by indian standards peaceful and progressive.

kuffir said...

T[-]E Pr()DiGiSt,

' Who the hell is talking about private sector jobs???'

first, i welcome all kinds of comments, especially from people who hold different points of view like you, but courtesy in comments would be appreciated.

now, coming back to your comment/s: i don't even claim to be an intellectual, so i can't really be a pseudo-intellectual.

but please ask whoever intellectual/pseudo-intellectual who's been teaching you about 'injustice in jobs' whatever makes him/her think 'jobs' mean govt jobs solely? and why does he/she think they're so very important?

Bhanu Prasad said...

Telangana has benefited from the united state. The benefit is much more than the cushy white collar jobs that were supposedly lost to Andhra "Settlers".

telengani said...

a: but they create jobs.
q: we don't want their jobs.


I see your strawman and raise you a strawman.

a: but they create jobs.
q: but the jobs that are created are given mostly to fellow andhrawalas.

This can go on for ever. The best way to resolve this mess is...if we could have...research scholars...well-trained highly logical research scholars evaluating the issue.

For example the "research scholars" have decided to prevent IPL matches from taking place in Hyderabad because "betting on cricket matches is also taking place which is nothing but looting of the money of Telangana people"

Bhanu Prasad said...

Mr. Telangani,



a: but they create jobs.
q: but the jobs that are created are given mostly to fellow andhrawalas.

The real reason is that it makes business sense to give jobs to andhrites. These fellows slog additional hours for the same pay. If telanganites can slog more, they will go through.

Man..they are capitalists and only thing that is given value is profit and money. This is irrespective of region.

telengani said...

@Bhanu Prasad,

"The real reason is that it makes business sense to give jobs to andhrites. These fellows slog additional hours for the same pay. If telanganites can slog more, they will go through."

Whah..what?!? Why don't you just come out and say that telangana people are lazy : )

Btw, your's is exactly the sort of argument that enables t-movement leaders to make ugly generalizations about Andhra people.

Bhanu Prasad said...

--Whah..what?!? Why don't you just come out and say that telangana people are lazy : )--

This is in no way denigration of people of Telangana. Look at US, few companies hire Indians because we work hard for a lower cost. Same here.

According to your logic we must argue that white people are dumb and witless. But, is it so?

ved said...

T[-]E Pr()DiGiSt,

' Who the hell is talking about private sector jobs???'

Did you ever make an analysis on how many state govt jobs are there in Andhra Pradesh? This latest PRC report 9th PRC report 2009 is a good source. I know the modus operandi of T vadis and where your numbers are coming. Let me know how many jobs the cunning andhrites(the famous slogan of T vaadis) should get?

Please also do some research on total number of skilled jobs in AP. This will be useful in discussing the relevance of so called stolen jobs.

telengani said...

@Bhanu Prasad,

I've tried to reconstruct for myself the best version of your argument. And I am still troubled by it.

So let's say you are not saying Telengana people are lazy. And white people are not dumb and witless. It's just that Andhra people have a better work ethic.

That if three people from each region were hired, you would most likely find the Andhra person putting in an extra hour or two each day and also coming in to work on the weekends.

Is this Andhra trait universal? I suspect you would say it is not. Then why make assumptions about the supposed work ethic of individuals based on group identity.

ved said...

telangani,

The cheap slogan for T vadis is 'cunning andhrites, cheaters' etc? In fact this is the core of separate T movement. Do you mind explaining this group identity and the associated assumptions?

telengani said...

@ved

"The cheap slogan for T vadis is 'cunning andhrites, cheaters' etc? In fact this is the core of separate T movement. Do you mind explaining this group identity and the associated assumptions?"

Things have come to this :) I thought it was obvious. I am deeply troubled by assumptions made about people based on a group identity. Regardless of who it's directed at.

I have already mentioned in a comment above that I find the generalizations by t-leaders about Andhra people to be "ugly".

kuffir said...

telengani,

'q: but the jobs that are created are given mostly to fellow andhrawalas.'

an argument, without substance.like it were made of straw.

there are jobs inside companies/businesses, and jobs created by those comapnies/businesses. jobs within a company/business are only a small part of all jobs created by a company/business/investment within an economy. even if all the jobs in all the companies built by the andhraites went to andhraites, because you guys think the andhraites are as broadminded as you are, there's no way all the jobs *created* by those investments in hyderabad can go exclusively to andhraites. in fact, within hyderabad, there are strong grounds to believe a major portion of jobs *created* went to hyderabadis or telanganis.

i don't think neither you, nor any of those well-trained research scholars nor their professors who trained them understand the difference. you have your jobs in the u.s.,. they have jobs here supported by stupid taxpayers.. don't think you guys really need to understand how the world outside your secure homes actually lives.

telengani said...

kuffr,

'q: but the jobs that are created are given mostly to fellow andhrawalas.'

an argument, without substance.like it were made of straw.


I think I haven't been as clear as I should have been. I said "I see your straw man and raise you a straw man"

What I meant was that I thought in your hypothetical dialogue (one I assumed was made in jest) you included a strawman argument. And I proposed to replace it with better strawman argument. But a strawman argument nonetheless.

Because of the paucity of thorough, academic, peer-reviewed articles about jobs, water and other issues, I believe both sides get away with assertions that, I suspect, do not represent the whole truth.

Just to be clear, I was mocking the telengana "research scholars" for their silly assertion that betting in IPL matches was aimed at defrauding telengana people.

 
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