22/07/06

separate telangana...from a safe distance

this post might not directly speak to non-telanganis and non-telugus..many would not be aware of the background, and the issues involved. but recent events in vidarbha - the suicides and the pm's visit and the despair of the people..and the machinations of politicians trying to reap something out of this unfolding tragedy took me back to a letter i'd written to mr.sudhir kodati, an official with the telangana development forum, an overseas organisation working towards the goal of a 'separate' telangana {please note: they're interested in a new telangana state, to be carved out of andhra pradesh..and not a separate nation}. i have a sizeable number of acquaintances among the 'separate telangana' crowd..some working at the political level, and some working outside india. i did not know mr.kodati ( but i knew people who knew him)..so i wrote to him around a year ago, when i read the appeal.., they'd presented to the pm, on his visit to new york in september, 2004. my letter, was actually written several months after the actual event..but the reality of nris in the u.s., directly involving themselves in ..politics in india, and its implications hit me only when i read the appeal..so i felt charged enough to pull up someone immediately..and hence this letter. i wrote it in an ...emotionally driven hour or two..and i'm posting it here for whatever it's worth. i don't regard it as a private communication, because it doesn't deal with any private/personal issues..it is a letter addressed to an organisation of nris (telanganis, so nrts) working for public causes, so i've no qualms in making it public. my views, as you will see, differ radically from the 'separatists',.. so, here is the full text of the letter..to which, may i add, i also received a reply:


"mr.sudhir,

'as a resident telangani, i thank you for your concern for our development. speaking for myself, i wish to respectfully decline your patronage and support. i fully agree with youthat there has been neglect and you have made an effective job of identifying the guilty. i wish to draw your attention to those who haven't been identified in your chargesheet: people without whose tacit approval, the said neglect would have been impossible. the central government and other institutions overseeing the delivery of justice in this countrycan and should rightly be accused of failing in their duties. as they have even failed intheir primary duty of ensuring the implementation of constitutional guarantees, their guilt is more deplorable. therefore, i respectfully urge you to raise the banner of a separate telangani nation as the indian state has gone back on the promises made when hyderabad state was forcefully annexed. the rationale you have laid out for the separation of telangana should, i believe, be carried to its logical conclusion. telangana, as you pointed out, has acharacter and a history of its own and it has very little in common with the rest of andhra pradesh, leave alone the rest of india. i implore you to give this issue your due consideration. and when you raise the banner of telangani nationhood, rest assured, i will be there behind you marching on the streets of storrs, connecticut or providence, rhode island. until then, you must forgive my delinquency.'

that was my letter, reproduced verbatim here, to your associate mr.madhu k.reddy, sent two weeks ago. mr.reddy, in his u.s. acquired wisdom, has chosen not to acknowledge my missive(i shudder to think about how attentive your cronies here in telangana would be when, or if, they come to power in a 'separated' telangana). his reaction is quite understandable, quite in keeping with the general indifference with which 'leaders' here in india tend to treat petitions from members of the great unwashed.why should they change when they don the mantle of leadership when abroad? i kept the tone of my letter deliberately servile (in the vein of peasants pleading with their doras for compassion.....kalmokkutha banchan) in order to drive home the glaring insincerity of nrts crying about injustice being done to telangana when they have already voted against telangana and india with their feet!

petitioning a sikh pm, who is probably as seized of the issue of telangana (and as knowledgeable) as comrade marshall stalin was in 1948 when a somewhat similar plea was made to him by members of the indian communist party, you have revealed the depth of, not your emotions, your own 'separation' from your moorings. why would a sikh pm pay any attention to a plaint of injustice from a minority community when he maintained a studied silence all through the 80s (when you and i were probably loafing it off in osman pasha's arts college) while members of his own community were being brutally suppressed for raising the banner of revolt? silence was a good career move for him then, considering his plans for an entry later into politics. just as ' telangana' is a good career move for guys of your ilk now - prepares the ground for a grand entry later into desi politics, right?

whatever be your intentions, i'm glad that you guys are concerned about the development of telangana - or is that just a reaction to the apparent prosperity of people of coastal andhra? because all your rationale, your evidence and your logic carries the subtext of being 'dominated', 'cheated', 'robbed' by the people from coastal districts. doesn't that sound like the whining of a weak, self-pitying and complaining child to you? where is the grand plan, the great vision you have for the development of telangana in your manifesto ? stripped of its overwhelming concern with 'injustice' ( andhraites seem to dominate your thinking here too) you have nothing to offer the telangana you forsook long ago. development? the pm would have been impressed if you guys had invested even a cent here in business. i would have been impressed if you had business interests in places where it matters the most, like say in other major towns, apart from hyderabad, like warangal or khammam or nizamabad or even siddipet....don't jump to the conclusion that i mean only monetary investments.

i've had the opportunity of working with businesses promoted by the much reviled andhraites in the pharma industry ( right down from dr.reddy's labs to the newest entrant in the industry) and i can tell you that they didn't invest much, by way of money that is, when they started out. what they invested was their undiluted interest, their willingness to commit honest mistakes and learn from them and the untested knowledge they had gained from education. of the twenty odd companies i had done business with only one was promoted by a telangani. a telangani who had come from a much more privileged background than dr.anji reddy himself (who was a small farmer's son, by the way, like most other andhra pharma entrepreneurs) and had great access to both political clout and money. his company folded up within two years of its launch. there was one other entrepreneur, son of a prominent minister in several governments, who i have heard of and don't personally know, from adilabad who was from a similar privileged background, and who duped apsfc of several crores before shutting down. yes, andhraites too have duped sfc...of much more money. but it only shows that they have tried more.
that's the scenario in the pharma industry, the only other industry apart from i t, which seems to be doing well here.

development, in my view, mr.sudhir, is not just about irrigation dams and ayacuts, it is about people. about educated people who are willing to invest their heart and soul in projects that require superhuman efforts to fructify. if you had been an entrepreneur here in the overregulated, infrastrustucturally bankrupt 70s and 80s you'd have appreciated that. you'd have appreciated it more if you had to wait years for a telephone connection for your factory in godforsaken narsapur. or for a simple dirt road to your neighbourhood in kukatpally from where you'd have to ride on scooters and travel in overcrowded buses to reach your workshop in jeedimetla. that's what the now successful andhraites have done. apart from, of course, looting and cheating telanganis as you so rightly point out. their sons now go to the u.s., to study and bring back more knowledge to their businesses. and loot and cheat telanganis more, perhaps.

development mr.sudhir is about doers not petitioners. your logic seems to suggest that once telangana is separated, development would happen automatically. once telangana is separated, you'd have a new set of complaints and a new list of 'cheats'. a separate telangana wouldn't lead to the automatic arrival of a new generation of doers. it wouldn't lead to any wonderful growth in new investments in industry or the services which are employers of the future. what it does for the rural economy would be marginal because agriculture is set to lose more and more jobs even if you manage to increase investments and raise productivity.

if a separate telangana is only about jobs in the government then it is doomed right from the start. increase jobs, or as the separatists seem to suggest, fill the posts left by the departing andhraites and you lead yourself into the death trap of never having any fiscal maneuvering power to invest substantially in anything faintly resembling development. no, mr.sudhir, a separate telangana , if it is going to have a criminally, large and cumbersome bureacracy just as a united andhra pradesh did, in order to accommodate the interests of a frustrated few it would be driving a nail in its own coffin.

i'm not finished, but i'm not sure whether you are going to read any more (if you have managed to read until now i'd be surprised). but i've decided to mail this letter to a few friends in the u.s.,(who had first mentioned your name to me by the way) in order to reach at least some telanganis, so that they would keep in mind the sentiments of the dissenting many in telangana when they make up their minds on the issue.it would also serve, i hope, as a record of sorts, of the opinion of an average dissenting telangani.

i'd appreciate a reply, but i don't expect it. because the issue of telangana, according to many knowledgeable people, should be decided by people with as little appreciation of it as possible, outside telangana, either in delhi or in the u.s.,

regards,

a resident telangani. "

i agree..it's a kind of a futile exercise.. but it did generate a response..which was ...hardly a response.. but about that, and my views on the issue of telangana..later,..if any of you who had the endurance to read through this post..is interested in my views, that is.

and btw..i don't really believe andhraites 'looted and cheated' telanganis.that's a crude generalisation. and it's not mine. as i said, the letter was written in a certain kind of moment..and its tone was mostly dictated by the audience it was sent to.
__________________________________________________

94 comments:

Venu said...

super post!

development, in my view, mr.sudhir, is not just about irrigation dams and ayacuts, it is about people. about educated people who are willing to invest their heart and soul in projects that require superhuman efforts to fructify.

Amen.

here's an example of how usefully Chattisgarh's natural resources are being used once it has become a new state.

kuffir said...

venu,

super post? i wasn't so sure when i posted it..but i knew it'd at least touch some telugus/indians the right way.. i believe we should keep a vibrant dialogue/debate going on this issue - the issue is being hijacked to move people on emotive lines..and the issue is development. and not clan identity.

thanks for your compliment.

kuffir said...

venu,

actually, coming from you it's more than a mere compliment...the motive for a large number among the separatist crowd might not be very clear to even themselves now..but it clearly runs along the lines illustrated in the link you pointed to.. political parties have become meaningful vehicles for growth for only one section of 'stakeholders' - those who wear their colors.

gaddeswarup said...

Very interesting but too long. I have to read it a few more times to get the gist of it. I have been following Indian news only recently and so would not like to comment on any divisive issues. some offhand remarks.
This somewhat irrelevant. I suspect that name Andhra originally came from Telangana. The earliest kings who were called Andhras are Satavahanas and most of their early coins were found in Koltilingala in Karimnagar District. I think Andhras posiibly came from Andhra valley near Poona and then spread eastwards. I do not much about these; probably somebody like Parabrahma Sastry would know better.
I too feel that NRIs should not meddle too much in Indian affairs. Many NRIs I met are very attached to India but there is also some arrogance in many which comes with some success. I find that this know-all attitude is less with westerners ( there are of course exceptions like Bush who seem to have a direct line to god). In this era of globalization, interactions are inevitable and can be helpful but initiatives have to come from locals and local organizations, I feel.
I would like to know what you think of on some specific issues. 1) Farmers' problems 2) The role of organizations like DDS. Sorry for a hurried response but I have been wondering about these for a while.
Swarup

kuffir said...

swarup,

i've read your views elsewhere on the net..and i'm real glad you've come visiting here..

'This somewhat irrelevant. I suspect that name Andhra originally came from Telangana. The earliest kings who were called Andhras are Satavahanas and most of their early coins were found in Koltilingala in Karimnagar District.'

this is not irrelevant - that's what i keep telling my friends..that it is the telanganis who might rightly claim to be andhras because the satavahanas - often referred to as 'satavahanas of andhra' in history ruled most of present day telangana..and parts of andhra.. that's what makes this whole andhra-telangana division bizarre..

'I think Andhras posiibly came from Andhra valley near Poona and then spread eastwards. I do not much about these; probably somebody like Parabrahma Sastry would know better.'

please..there is no evidence to support the theory of historic 'separateness' of andhra and telangana. there has been a great mixture of now distinct linguistic groups such as the maharashtrians/kannadigas/oriyas/tamils/adivasis-others of chattisgarh region etc., through history ( isn't that the reason why we notice the presence of certain caste/jati groups across these regions)..but nothing to support the theory that andhras/telanganis are radically different.. i'm from south telangana..my language and culture differs a great deal from the northern parts..and people from certain parts of the district i hail from speak a patois of telugu very different from mine..and much closer to the andhra dialects.. c.p.brown, when he was studying telugu as spoken in the now tamil and coastal districts kept referring to that region as telangana..my view is that telangana is a term essentially coined by outsiders, especially from the north, to refer to telugu speaking regions in the south..this custom is of recent origin..and probably began with the entry of a large number of soldiers from telugu country (now telangana) in the armies of the marathas..you'll still find surnames such as 'telang' in the north.. the only weak pointer to the origin of the term 'andhra' in the andhra region is the presence of an ancient temple in 'srikakulam' (a village) in krishna district..dedicated to 'sri kakula andhra deva'. the temple's claim to distinction is based on the apocryphal fact that krisna deva raya- 'andhra bhoja' visited it.

'I too feel that NRIs should not meddle too much in Indian affairs. Many NRIs I met are very attached to India but there is also some arrogance in many which comes with some success'

i have no right to dispute the quality of attachment/affection of the nris for india..but my objection is that it is becoming overly political..and political on divisive lines.. shouldn't we try building something instead ? together, if possible. haven't these guys heard of the word 'synergy'?

' In this era of globalization, interactions are inevitable and can be helpful but initiatives have to come from locals and local organizations, I feel.'

yes, definitely local. but unfortunately, instead of civil organisations forging meaningful alliances across the oceans..it seems divisive casteist/regional political groups from india have been more successful in ..forging alliances.

'I would like to know what you think of on some specific issues. 1) Farmers' problems 2) The role of organizations like DDS. Sorry for a hurried response but I have been wondering about these for a while.'

may i respond to your last query in a later response?

gaddeswarup said...

Sorry for a confused post. I meant that the original Andhra rulers (Satavahanas) might have come from Andhra valley but there is no research to support this (as far as I know). Though there have been some outstanding scholars and researchers, there has not been much systematic work so far, I think.
Anyway, I mainly posted because I hoped that you will start writing about farmers' problems. I read Sainath's and Mishra's articles but feel that though they are well meaning , their pictures are incomplete. In some posts of you that I have seen, I thought that you probably have a better picture. I will wait for your posts. thanks and regards,
Swarup

gaddeswarup said...

There is a brief 'gnapakalu" by A telugu writer in today's Andhrajyoti:
http://www.andhrajyothy.com/sunday/sundayshow.asp?qry=memories

kuffir said...

swarup,

interesting.. some of his memories of the razakar period actually seem famliar to me - as my parents' own childhood memories.. i've put in their memories in one of my posts - but i've changed them somewhat to fit in a contemporary context...and turned them into a tribute to the poet'cherabanda raju'..it's in my sep.2005 archives..(my parents' memories are more horrific in a way..and the post is entirely derived from tales i've heard from them and certain other elders of those tumultous pre-'police action'days).
i've also heard oldtimers reminisce about gandhi's trip to warangal in 1946.. thanks for the link.

Pawan said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Pawan said...

Kuffir

I look forward to thhe continuation of these posts.What do you think about the TDFs charge of 'cultural subjugation' by the Andhrites - that Telangana culture cannot be preserved and promoted in the state as it is now.? Emotions are running very high in TDFs forums and that rules out any other view point. This was very refreshing.Cheers.

Srinivas said...

TDF consists of people who don't dare to accept reality nor wanted to do an argument. If try to post anything that would be sensored and would be on the forum if and only they see thier view point. They could be compared to Kumbhakarna in terms of realization and gandhari in terms of visualization (why gandhari because she had seen the world for some time and voluntarily closed her eyes. She allways visulize in tandem with what she had seen before. similarly they only buy arguments thats match thier view point)

kuffir said...

pawan,

every linguistic community in india is feeling subjugated - from the onslaught of 'pure-ists' first and from english and other languages. every rural community is facing an onslaught of urbanisation and 'western' mores.. the clamor to protect 'telangani'culture, as it exists in their imagination, by certain'intellectuals'/ organisations is nothing but another attempt by a new kind of 'pure-ists' to do the impossible - make culture remain still.. culture can't be static, and i find even the andhraites are swamped by outside influences too fast..

yes, there is a great deal in telangani culture that needs to be retained..but the separatists have forgotten too fast the bitter lessons of the pre-independence era - they seem to be looking at everything through rose-tinted glasses.. remember all cms from telangana until now where educated in urdu medium during theirv schooldays..remember telugu was so looked down upon in telangana that we're still reeling from its effects..

there is more i wish to say but..telanganis aren't the only ones who are feeling subjugated now..

kuffir said...

srinivas,

sorry for the delay in responding to your comment - my connection has been erratic.

'TDF consists of people who don't dare to accept reality nor wanted to do an argument.'

that's the problem with emotive issues - rational analysis gets sidelined. a sincere cost-benefit analysis would reveal a truer picture..

thanks for expressing your views here -they're strongly original.

Cosmic Voices said...

I thought of delaying my comments till i made a post related to this, though i cant say how closely it would be.

Till, then a few thoughts.

Backwardness can never be the reason for seperate state as every state has pockets of backwardness.

The southern districts of TN are so backward that till recently, even the Collectorate of Ramnad district was located in the neighbouring Madurai District. I don't know if any telengana district had such a plight. But people there don't see seperate state as a solution.

Personally, I do feel that growing population and increasing complexities call for smaller states for more accessable administration. But such a reorganisation of states should happen in sync with host of other administrative reforms, like RTI (not in modified form).

However, the reasons given by TRS and TDF are no reasons at all for the demand.

And as far as the question of culture goes, first protect the telugu culture. We can then think of telangani culture. I don't know about the regional composition of the media in hyderabad, but it really irks me to the core when newsreaders on TV9 have headlines without a single telugu word .... "Uma Bharati rally..... grand success" .... "APPSC order ki HC stay order" . It is ironical that the Zee telugu channel newsreaders speak more and better telugu. Please learn a thing or two from your southern neighbour, who might appear jingoistic at times, but still are more successful in preserving, if not developing, their culture.

kuffir said...

cosmic voices,

i agree with most of your views.. but there seems to be a misinterpretation of my views here - please read my post again..i'm not in favour of a separate telangana..

p.s., yourviews on the state of tn reflect my own.. i urge you to read my post again.

Cosmic Voices said...

Kuffir,

I think I got that you are not in favour of seperate telangana. And Neither I am.

I think this is the sentence that distorted my comment.

"However, the reasons given by TRS and TDF are no reasons at all for the demand."

My thought on smaller states was independent of the telangana issue.

Our constitution mandidates that the population in constituecies shall, as far as possible, be equal. Why don't we apply the same logic to state governments? Why should a state with population of 6 lakhs have the luxury of having an entire cabinet while another with 6 crores should also put up with just one cabinet?

Just like a doctor-patient ratio, we should also have a minister-population ratio.

I am in favour of small states which would help in better administration and utilisation of resources. Now, these need not neccesarily be formed on the basis emotional demands or cultural boundaries.

When I say a smaller state, it should be viable in every sense. So the small state might have a few telangana and andhra districts. The criterion is administrative efficiency.

It is an attempt in the direction of decentralisation as I have little hopes of PR system delivering the goods as functional and financial powers would never be devolved to them.

And with the degree of dependence on centre, states are little more that administrative boundaries. All the talk of reorganisation on the basis of language to fullfill cultural aspirations is pure crap.

Goofy said...

A nicely made post..but one question....Why treat NRI politician way of thinking from a Indian politician way of thinking. The hidden objective seems to be easy path to politics.

However with this growing lapses in implementation of local government I think smaller states are good solution. I really dont agree to the suggestion of Cosmic talking about administrative convinience. It should be on a model of similar characterstics as it helps in implementing easier

kuffir said...

goofy,

thanks for your comment..you say :

'However with this growing lapses in implementation of local government I think smaller states are good solution.'

are lapses going to stop if we have smaller states.?. in analysing reorgaization of states (i don't think it's necessary) we always fall prey to certain inappropriate paradigms of thought - we think of states as mere organisations and not as.. living groups of individuals..the linguistic reorganisation of states was in a way a recognition of principles more sound and logical and therefore more ..conducive to bonding than issues of geography, size, numbers and so on..

i am an indian because i am a telugu..and a telugu because i'm a telangani..by asking me to accept totally 'secular' principles of nationhood you're ..negating the very foundations of my being an indian .. in other words, you're asking me to be a mere citizen, and not a person without roots, background and an identity.

cosmic voices,

pr might have failed - but devolution is the only way out.. all other measures to democratise india would be merely cosmetic..if each village , and each citizen is not given back at least a part of his/her sovereign rights.

kuffir said...

goofy,

the last sentence in my response should read :'..and not a person, with roots, background and an identity'.

Goofy said...

The arguement that i was trying to put forward in smaller states might be the same that oyu have heard many times. A smaller state effectively means that the administration would be more challenged to provide the resources.

For simplicity sake...you have a colony of 1000 people and colony of 10000 people, having their own administration. The administration would be more responsive in 1000 people colony to each persons complaints, concerns and well being.

It is just a perception that we are talking about. I do not have facts to prove it

Secondly me being in favor of telangan shows that we should not forget the roots that we are from this place inspite of being an overall Indian

P.S I am not sure of how you would characterize a telangani. I have been living all my life in hyd but can trace back my roots to Godavari district

kuffir said...

goofy,

'A smaller state effectively means that the administration would be more challenged to provide the resources.'

you understand quite well that dividing up a state is far different from a class (into sections)..a class of a hundred students can be divided into manageable sections of twenty five each.. a state can't be viewed in the same manner..because it is already divided into manageable units - called districts, mandals, panchayats.. at the lowest level , if properly empowered and provided with approprite share of finances..no villager would actually have to go to a mandal or district or state headquarters to get the simplest work done in his village.. dividing a state wouldn't mean he/his village would get more attention.. it's a fallacy to assume so.. creation of more districts perhaps would serve the same purpose.

the point is the adminstration (or most of the adminstration) of a unit of say thousand people should primarily be managed by those thousand people (or their representatives at the unit level). what happens at the top has/should little bearing on most of the issues concerning the people at the unit level. in other words, the cabinet..or the executive at the very top of a state should only make policy and oversee its implementation.. it doesn;t really matter how many units the people at the top manage..if we go by your yardstick india shouldn't be a single nation at all but several nations..

'Secondly me being in favor of telangan shows that we should not forget the roots that we are from this place inspite of being an overall Indian..'

isn't that the point i am trying to make when i say 'i am an indian because i'm a telugu..and a telugu because i'm a telangani..


'I am not sure of how you would characterize a telangani. I have been living all my life in hyd but can trace back my roots to Godavari district..'

yes, that's the whole point..we all have multiple identities..should we have a separate state/nation for geeks and doctors and..butchers..sometimes, it's important that you chose the most important identity without compromising on other identities - i choose my telugu identity as the most important one..

Anonymous said...

i have a question to all the people who posted above to comment after considiring the 3 following facts.
a. the powerful makes the rules (ie. politically connected,prosperous and netowrked adhrites)
b. predominant population in Adhra Pradesh as in much parts of india lives of Agriculture and that being the case, water and power 2 important prerequisites to sustaince of a farmer. (which have been deliberately denied in proportion to telangana)
c. A generation or two of neglect in developing a whole region will deplete both the infrastructure needed to create and sustain development and also kill the moral strength needed to that "fighting spirit" out of people.. becasuse telanganis see no hope.
Now keeping these three points in mind.. other than saying .. "lets think of bring people together than dividing" or "if there is a will there is a way" or such philosophical line of suggestions. i would encourage people to post, what needs to do change the plight of the people of telanga with or without a seperate state, realistic difference, with realistic options.
Keep in mind the resistance of the established community (andhrites) strenght and resolve to change the status quo.

kuffir said...

anonymous,

'Now keeping these three points in mind.. other than saying .. "lets think of bring people together than dividing" or "if there is a will there is a way" or such philosophical line of suggestions.'

i didn't notice any overly philosophical comments here..i wish you had pointed them out. exhorting everyone to say united is not philosophy as i'll explain...if you'll care to tell me whether 'power' as in point 'a' you make is same as 'power' in point 'b'?

gaddeswarup said...

Personally, I do not see the problem at an idea level with a new state. After all, there are different Hindi speaking states and English speaking countries. But I think that the initiative has to come from the people. I am not sure whether it is just one or two generations of neglect. Remember songs like "Bamdenuka bamdi gatti..". What Ananymous says may be true, but it would be good to know some numbers and references. I think NRIs like me can only observe and perhaps try to help in good causes but it is up to the local people to start the initiatives.

Anonymous said...

Hi kuffir
Points a and b are interrelated. point a is generally about power in all its forms (political, financial etc) and point b is more specific to the allocation of water that is so much the issue (especially becasue majority of people are dependent either directly or indirectly on agriculture that is based on water and power).
I propabbly should have used the words "ideological" rather than "philosophical" and the suggestions i am hoping all of you will put forth will be practical and doable say in span of 5 years (nothing magic about this number.. i just picked one) to bring about some real visible development.
What i am hoping by doing is that we all will see why the argument comes back to the water and power projects that have to be done PRONTO in telangana region and also the reasons why it will not get done..! (refer to point a and b).

Anonymous said...

gaddeswarup
http://www.telangana.org/Papers.asp
this is a wonder ful source for you get some numbers and analysis on my argument.

PS: For all the concerned friends here in this forum
please do not confuse the claim for seperate Telanga from Telangana's Development. All of us can be FOR Telangana's Development while still contemplating about the virtuosity of claim for seperate state. Lets not sacrifice one Cause for the other. Telangana's development still requires strong commitment from all of us here in US and in india. It needs more support from us to financially support the cause and more in india to support the movement to put pressure on the political system to not ingnore us.

kuffir said...

anonymous,

you establish dramatic relationships..you seem to know that everthing comes back to a certain point ..so why do you need anyone else' opinions..?

how are power and power as in electricity interrelated.?. and who denied telangana political power? so if you think telangana is powerless..why aren't you fighting for independence?

i'll come back to the rest of your points..

Anonymous said...

Kuffir
For the sake of not hijacking the issue to emotional arguments, i will ask the same question to all that i posted before.
what constructive suggestions can u give to change the existing situation in view of all the current assumptions and presumptions from people like me about telangana's development.
I see that you have spent considerable time and energy on this issue so your opinion on what needs to done will be very helpful for people like me and others in this forum and people that watch these forum but not necessarily participate in it actively.
Thanks Much

kuffir said...

anonymous,

i'm curious to know how exactly you would define the term 'development'. your very first comment here seemed to indicate that you have a certain theory as to why telangana should secede..from andhra pradesh.. so the onus of laying down a 'development agenda' lies on you..not on those who prefer the status quo..

however, as a mark of courtesy to a guest, let me indicate the direction in andhra pradesh, and more so in telangana should take., in my view. i have indicated in my post what i think development should focus on - people. this doesn't that mean i underestimate the importance of focus areas like agriculture and irrigation etc., but this an approach i'd suggest for all developing regions of any comparable region in the world - a people-centric approach to development.

kerala is a region smaller, in area, than telangana, and has a few million fewer people. the similarities end there.

the wikipedia says :'Kerala's human development indices — elimination of poverty, primary-level education, and healthcare — are among the best in India. For example, Kerala's literacy rate (91%)and life expectancy (73 years)are now the highest in India. Meanwhile, Kerala's rural poverty rate fell from 69% (1970–1971) to 19% (1993–1994), while the overall (urban and rural) rate fell 36% during the 1970s and 1980s. Kerala's above-unity female-to-male ratio — 1.058 — also distinguishes it from the rest of India.The same is true of its sub-replacement fertility level and infant mortality rate (estimated at 12[39][80] to 14[81] deaths per 1,000 live births).'

which means that kerala pays better attention to its people than the many other states. and that its people healthier and better equipped (educated) to lead more productive lives. let me illustrate this : andhra pradesh has a population of 7.57 crore people and a gdp of around 1,40,000 crores. kerala has 3.18 crore people and a gdp of 90,000 crores. gdp in kerala works out to around 28,801 rs. per citzen.. and the per capita figure for andhra pradesh works out to rs.18,494.

people-centredness, as i said, forms the heart of my preferred approach..

kuffir said...

'however, as a mark of courtesy to a guest, let me indicate the direction in andhra pradesh, and more so in telangana should take., in my view.'

please read that as 'the direction development in andhra pradesh...'

Anonymous said...

Kuffir
I appreciate your courtesy in responding to my post.
quoting your answer
"people-centredness, as i said, forms the heart of my preferred approach.." is precisely what is missing.
Majority of the residents in this area are dependent on agriculture and that needs water to grow the crops and infrastruture to sell their produce and products. There is no other segment of revenue generation that is significant in this part of the state other than agricultural.
Therefore there is no other way to bring upliftment to the livelyhood of common man ("which is what i mean by development").
In view of the past and current governments disproportionately low capital spending to create alternate forms of employment in this area relative to its population, i am not sure what else a common man can do to change the situation.
Facts and statistics for this can be found on the TDF website and propably elsewhere also.
And also i did not get any specific answer from you as to what needs to be done for the upliftment of the Living standards of the Telangana people and i am not sure looking at kerala gives me any answers.
Since the history of Telangana and its growth relative to other areas, ie. to andhra, and the disproportional appropriation of water and financial resouces is clearly evident and well documented , a more concrete list of suggestions to correct this imbalance and what it takes to achieve that other than asking for a seperate state would be very helpful. Becasue "people-centredness approach to development" does not really point the uninitated in the right direction as a concrete alternate to segregation from the state, in the form of seperate telanga for the reversal of fortunes of these everneglected residents of these districts.
thank you.

kuffir said...

anonymous,

i was expecting this response from you - the whole so-called 'movement for telangana' - revolves around this narrow narrative of 'betrayal and injustice'.. i was testing the waters to see whether your views fall anywhere outside this 'tunnel perspective.' you don't.

people-centredness means a government creates the enabling infrastructure and environment needed to help individuals live, work..and create themselves opportunities to utilise each individual'sd potential fully.

please look at the kerala example more closely ..it's lesson, essentially,is that the government invests major resources & in 'education & health'.

this has helped create in kerala a productive society that is able to produce a larger gdp, per capita, than telangana or andhra pradesh which have far more resources.. look at the period between 1971-93.. kerala has been able to reduce its poverty figures from 69% to 19% ! a gigantic 75% fall!

think about it.

i know quite well what the tdf has to say.. would you like to discuus more development perspectives here ...?

so, i repeat, where's your development agenda?

Anonymous said...

Kuffir
Thas is precisely my point "where is the development agenda..", where is the "people-centredness" government or programs that has made any difference to this region in the past 50 years.
There has been and lack of complete lack of development agenda for this region and unjustly so.
I would phrase the "narrow perspective" to "a significant and overriding issue" for the stuggle that is going on.
None of the governments either past or present want to look at either example of Kerala or anybody to bring improvements to this region. And may be you can shed some light on why it hasn't been.
An may be when Telanganis have a government that has their best interests in mind i am sure they would be very willing to learn what is to be learnt from Kerala's great accomplishments.
And my question to you is
a. what is or has stopped powers that are from doing what you think needs to be done to develop this region.
b. How is status Quo is going to change anything for these people.
thanks for your insight.

kuffir said...

anonymous,

'An may be when Telanganis have a government that has their best interests in mind i am sure they would be very willing to learn what is to be learnt from Kerala's great accomplishments.'

you talk more like a politician than a citizen (i'm not even sure you're an indian citizen anymore) truly worried about development..

there has been no kerala-style development anywhere in andhra pradesh..not just telangana.

so you should stop talking about changing the status quo in just telangana..and start thinking about changing the status quo in the whole of andhra pradesh.

i repeat, why aren't you asking for independence?

Anonymous said...

kuffir
Tow very straightforward questions for you Kuffir
1. what do you in your analysis the reason for such a state of telangana people vis a vis , providing a decent livelyhood comparable to population in andhra.
b. why had everyone failed in uplifting financial standards in the past 50 years by any and all governments and by well meaning populace like you in this region.
i am asking these questions because i very much want to understand the other point of view.
thank you for you input.

Srinivas said...

The people who support Telangana are of the following:

Telangana NRI's: As they live in different country as alliens even after they were granted citizenship, they just imagine that people from telangana suffering from the same syndrome.

People who were competent not enough to compete in open market but special concessions like local quota...If this logic is true then caste based reservations should be true...They never agree for it. They would not be intrested in growth of fellow BC/SC/ST telanganite but mostly themselves (Dora/Reddy).

What is the guarantee..that they will be able get better terms when telangana is formed. Politicians are alike, may be few years they are emotinal later they work for the bribes. Best example is Shivsena...these guys allways say Mumbai for Maharastrians..but when they are in power..the people that get benifitted were gujju's. Money rules the world. This can be avoided by bringing in as article like 370 as like kashmir where assets should belongs to locals only. But this is not acceptable for BJP/RSS nor the financiers of TRS (North Indian Bussiness community).

As an oridinary telangana citizen (like me from generations) belive that system need to be changed, unless even a state formed for every taluq will not help

kuffir said...

anonymous/srinivas,

i'm sorry i've been a little tied up the past few days..will respond shortly.

gaddeswarup said...

Ananymous,
I have followed TDF discussions off and on. Many of the discussions seemed filled with emotion and hate and I am not sure whether I want to use this site for my information. But I will keep looking for other sources.

Anonymous said...

Srinivas
You are not totally off the base and yor apprehensions are well founded, but the question remains
"what is the chage of system" mean on immediate terms.. something that can we all can work towards and that is doable..

Anonymous said...

gaddeswarup
TDF is filled with poople who becasue of their exposure and their personal aanalysis of this issue, have made up their mind that the only way things are going to change of Telangana is By seperation of state.
Becasue in their collective opinion all the things that we are talking about here, have been talked about before and they just see the history repeating itself.
So definately that's not the place to go for getting help in making a decision but a place to go after you have made the decision thats what it will take to better things.
And YES.. they do get very emotional and touchy about things..:)

Anonymous said...

An excellent post. I would like to hear more of your views on this subject.

I do agree with swarup that TDF is very extreme in their outlook as their basic premise is hatred towards andhra. This whining about andhrites is a short sighted policy to invoke passions among telanganites for political benefits but does nothing for the welfare of the region. We already have representative form of govt that has 107 mlas representing Telangana, larger any one region. If they are united and want to work for their region, they could have. But they didn't. Why blame somebody else? Even though you can call me andhrite, I heard tales from my village that we were originally from telangana and moved to andhra later. When they argue about subjugation and deceit from andhrites , they float this notion that telanganites are of different race than andhrites, and the deceit is very genetic. To me it is the most racist statement I ever heard.

Anonymous said...

The above post was addressed to Kufr.

Thanks,
APman.

kuffir said...

anonymous (last),

i'm sorry for responding so very late to your perceptive comment - i noticed it very late. i thank you for your kind words...actually i do plan to write more on this subject. in fact i've done two more posts on the subject of telangana ('a problem with authority' and 'a horror story'...) in which i am attempting to diagnose/ explore the actual reasons behind telangana's backwardness.. i hope you continue reading.

thanks again.. are u on orkut ?- because i'm trying to start a group over there ('samaikhyandhra').

kuffir said...

anonymous (last),

'they float this notion that telanganites are of different race than andhrites, and the deceit is very genetic.'

yes, this what disturbs me the most.. that they're diagnosing both the problem and the solution on the wrong lines.

Anonymous said...

Hi Kuffir,

Thanks for the reply. I can’t wait for your new articles on Telangana. I really would like to know the real solution for the development of Telanagana as well as other backward regions of our state.

No. I’m on orkut. Not yet.

BTW, what was the reply from Mr Sudhir Kodati? Also have you ever been to a site called andhranews.com , a website seems to be from Hyderabad . There are lot of discussions about Telangana statehood. I’m lurker on that website and see several posts that echo your sentiments.

Thanks,
APman.

Anonymous said...

Well comments wont decide the fate. Facts are following.

-- 10 districts, 45%of AP population -------

1. It was Andhra who fought separate state and so tag of separatism should apply to them. It was Brahmin politics, to allow the merger of Andhra to Telangana.

2. AP formation is the experiment to be reviewed as per SRC commission and Nehru did not like the merger of Andhra to Telangana.

3. This Merger comes cleanly with Merger accord and GO 610 binding on all govts.

4. How come it was not implemented? why to talk of development when we ask for De Merger.. Oh yeah friends, that is the key.. Andhrites merged with us and we merely asking them to leave. Leave us alone.

5.Isn't it strange Andhrites and Anti Telangana people talking of development being united! when they loot water share, Minerals, Govt contracts, Jobs, Seize the land and make business with projects coming on telangana, secretariat is full of Andhrites.

Can someone explain 45% of AP population, 6% representation in AP secretariat .. and where is this secretariat.. In telanagana heart.

Guys forget history, language etc we were independent state with proper infrastructure and surplus budget. It was Andhrites who have sought separate state so please Go HOME make your separate identity. Why be our headache.

Not sure if AP govt bans celebration of Potti sriramulu on AP formation day, but being in telangana, physically present in Telangana AP govt earlier banning Sep 17th anniversary of Hyderabad union to India is vulgar display of cultureless oppressive Andhra mentality. Be a good guests friends and give respect or make your own capital and leave us alone.

Anonymous said...

While we are waiting for Kuffir to respond, let me give my 2 cents.

Anonymous wrote ” 1. It was Andhra who fought separate state and so tag of separatism should apply to them. It was Brahmin politics, to allow the merger of Andhra to Telangana. “

My response:

That is your personal opinion. The separate state claim was based on a simple logic as andhrites spoke different language and want to protect their language and heritage. The fact that Madras was occupied predominantly by telugites before 1950 and by 2006 telugu language completely disappeared from Chennai is a clear vindication of this simple logic.

Anonymous wrote “ 2. AP formation is the experiment to be reviewed as per SRC commission and Nehru did not like the merger of Andhra to Telangana.”

My response:

Nehru initially didn’t like it, not for the love of Telangana or hatred towards Andhra, but due to respect and fear of Kamaraj and Rajgopalachari from Tamilnadu. Andhra and Telangana didn’t posses same kind of leaders ( probably it is true to this day)

Anonymous wrote “ 3. This Merger comes cleanly with Merger accord and GO 610 binding on all govts.”

My response:

The GO 610 is the most preposterous GO. I completely agree that it was most ill conceived and deceptive GO. It is no different than the preposterous caste based reservation that this country became victim of.


Anonymous wrote “ 4. How come it was not implemented? why to talk of development when we ask for De Merger.. Oh yeah friends, that is the key.. Andhrites merged with us and we merely asking them to leave. Leave us alone.”

My response:

Development doesn’t come with some reservation and quotas. If that is so, all backward and sc/st people of India would have developed by now. Instead the reservation was exploited by the creamy layer leaving behind rest of the people. What shall the remaining population of BC/SC/ST caste do? Secede from republic of India. The GO 610 is also same. As long as the root cause is not addressed, these short sighted ordinances won’t achieve anything.

Anonymous wrote “ 5. Isn't it strange Andhrites and Anti Telangana people talking of development being united! when they loot water share, Minerals, Govt contracts, Jobs, Seize the land and make business with projects coming on Telangana, secretariat is full of Andhrites. “

Let me illustrate the fallacy in your statement. Bihar’s population is 10% that of India. It has high mineral resources of the country, and had a highly industrialized area. Once upon a time, it was cradle of Indian civilization. But currently in human resource development it is one of the poorest in the country. They have highly industrialized areas like Ranchi, Jamshedpur (I’m combining Jarkhand for this discussion). Together they have 54 MP seats, one of the largest group besides UP ( just like 107 mlas from telangana, the largest of the four regions from AP). Can somebody exaplain how 10% of the population with greatest mineral sources generate less than 2% of the wealth? By applying your logic, what should they do? Declare independence from India. BTW, they already separated to smaller states and became worse than before. So don’t give this 45% crap. It doesn’t mean anything.

The 45% is already accounted for fully in a representative form of Government with 107 mlas in our state assembly. It is up to these representative to take care of the region. And it is up to the people of Telangana to elect good representatives. This is true for Rayalaseema , delta area and Northern Andhra. BTW, all of them failed and are no better than Telangana. So don’t fall for these cheap gimmicks of politicians who try to cover up their short comings with finger pointing at our neighbors. It is always somebody else at fault !!

Finally, you need to define what is loot. Currently 3000 TMC of godavari water goes to sea. The coastal delta area uses less than 850 tmc of water. Most of the water utilization is not by design of some dams or ayacuts, but it is by gravity that it goes through their delta before it is released to sea. By the same token, they periodically get flooded for the same lack of any man made control. Where does this loot comes into picture?


Thanks for reading my response. Aplogize for the long reply.

APman.

kuffir said...

anonymous (pro-separation),

note, i identify you by the tag 'pro-separation' and not 'pro-telangana' etc., or other emotion evoking names/labels that kcr likes to use, and his cronies dutifully parrot..so please don't try any 'anti-telangana' kind of name-calling over here. when push comes to shove and if this conflict breaks up into riots ..it's people like me who live here in hyderabad and telangana who'd actually be caught up in its cross-fire..not people who chant the mantra of separation from across the seas..i don't think you were affected personally by any of the events of the last time this conflict flared up..(now don't quote the figures of martyrs at me, i know about them). i have very painful memories of those times.

look at what you had written ...is there one cogent thought in there? it's a motley palette of grievances...and have you really tried to understand what caused those grievances..instead of rattling off the trs litany of complaints..? in my 'telangana'posts ('a problem with authority', which you might think is not connected to the subject, but it definitely is,...and 'a horror story', both in september) after this one, i tried to delve into telangana's past to explore why the separatists, and a large section of those supporting them, have not fully assimilated the 'democratic' ethos..why they still fail to understand that it's not individuals (like sonia gandhi, kcr, for instance) who run this country but people and ..institutions that form the framework of democracy. no individual can 'give' telangana..so kcr can't bring 'telangana'.. only someone suffering from a feudal 'mai-baap' mindset can think along those lines..and trs is encouraging people to think along those lines - what is this abusive rhetoric of 'prathama shatruvu/drohulu/valasa palakulu' etc.,? doesn't the trs understand the importance of dissent and diversity of opinion in a democracy? does the 'trs' and the 'trcc' plan to own telangana after 'separation' - just as the nizam and his jagirdars owned telangana before independence..suppressing all dissent and diversity and democracy?

let me explain how democracy works - picture some villages along the godavari in karimnagar.. they have no means of assured irrigation and their only potential source is the river. and it can be tapped only through building a dam.. so what do they do? the middle class over there senses the gravity of the problem and starts articulating the issue - the people coalesce around the middle class leadership and pressurise their elected leaders and other politicians.. the politicians carry the message to hyderabad or delhi or wherever and pressurise the government to start thinking of the issue..and this pressure, by the people, the middle classes and through them the press and other institutions like associations representing farmers (again a middle class led group) etc., is never toned down or diluted. keep consistently taking up the issue..keep the elected leaders and through them the government consistently on their toes.. and because this is india, and governments react very, very slowly..the people need to be more and more committed and consistent....committed to their fight. because politicians are criminally selfish in this country - the middle classes need to be more and more vigilant..

but what's typically happened in telangana...on these kind of issues and on issues like public employment? the middle classes have been either very slow, inconsistent or ...weak. the people have not become fully aware of their democratic rights (because they still seem to think certain individuals are more important than institutions...just as in a feudal state).. in my view, one of the major problems of telangana is the inadequate assimilation of democratic values and rights..and the failure of the middle classes, more than the political leadership, to articulate the expression of the people's aspirations ..loud and clear on a consistent basis.

so if major irrigation projects on the godavari need to be taken up..the people, the middle classes need to take this up on a consistent basis. the political leadership cannot be allowed to sleep on the issue .look at what the trs did when polavaram was being taken up before major projects in telangana were. this is the freshest indication of what's fundamentally wrong with the middle classes and the political leadership here. there are 'n' number of ways in which attention from the people's fundamental issues can be diverted in an ..evolving, weak democracy like india.. the political leadership and long entrenched feudal and other vested interests are very adept at this.

so fight consistently on the issue - and not get diverted by extraneous issues..that's the lesson. look at the way in which the nba managed to hold up the narmada dam for more than two decades facing upto the collective strength of three powerful state governments. focus on the issue. look at how consistent, cutting across party and lines, has been the battle of the 'delta parirakshana samithi' in the guntur-krishna districts. focus on the issue.

this is what has been lacking in telangana - an educated middle class that focuses on the real issues and not irrelevant ones. given its history and background of oppression it's not strange that an educated, articulate middle classs has emerged very late in the region. the telangana agitation in the late 60s was the earliest sign of its emergence. but it is still not totally formed and the trs is using the energies of this articulate class to fuel its own agenda of taking the region back to a regressive feudal era.

the trs has encouraged the selective retention and interpretation of history - i've dealt with one aspect of telangana's history in the later posts i mentioned and will take up the rest in future posts. fully independent state with surplus budget? and it's not just development but culture that justifies separation? read those two points you raised together. what do they tell you? you don't want development but wish to protect your culture. then why raise the issues of public employment and irrigation? to fool gullible people and make them think that the trs is also interested in development? secondly, a surplus budget? do you know what this surplus was built on? the blood of the suppressed people of telangana under one of the most repressive regimes in modern history. this budget was inherited by the democratic govt of the state of hyderabad. thirdly, you think the two regions are totally different culturally and don't have much in common apart from language.. so what does telangana have in common with the rest of india ? as far i can see, we don't share even a common language. so i repeat the question i had asked earlier in my post, why don't you demand a separate nation?

the union of the telugus is a historical imperative - ask the punjabis on this side of the indian border whether they'd like to integrate again with their brethren across the border and they'd wholeheartedly agree to it, given certain enforceable conditions. despite serious differences in religious affiliation etc., the telugus, because of the vast region they're spread over, have inconsistently been under one rule. if they'd been under one state/nation ..consistently, their culture, language, wealth would have been one of the most distinguished ones among world nations now. telugu was spoken by around one-third of the people in what is now tamil nadu at the beginning of the 20th century.. now it's less than two percent. in the city of madras/chennai which was founded on telugu land and built on the creative energies of the telugus (just as bombay/mumbai was built by the gujaratis) now doesn't sport a single signboard in telugu. the city of hyderabad which is being built into a modern economically vibrant city now (no, don't tell me about who built charminar, assembly etc., i'm talking of economics here)..owes its development to a great extent to the idea of a united telugu people. think about this idea.

Anonymous said...

1. Nonsense what do you mean GO 610 is preposterous! If this is your line, i regret to say many accords and agreements will fall flat.

2. Whatever reason Andhrites sought separate state, pls no justification.. the telugu being vanished there is telangana in our land being vanished in our jobs, power, land , Minerals.

3. Please dont preach ideals as remember when we sacrificed to fight razakars to integrate with India and formed separate state ... Andhrites busy fighting separate state.

4. I junk you comments of Nehru out of respect for kamaraj opposed merger! could there be more nonsense than you attributing motives. Well in your logic, Nehru would oppose separate state for Andhra ... why oppose merger.

Well another thing which is important most telanganites do not like merger and still do not like. DOT It was you who fought for separate state, either get it or stay put guys. Why be our head ache.

Also i find it ridiculous and attrocious your comparision of Bihar as out of focus and comparing apples and orranges.
Logic is simple ... 10 districts 45% of AP population once a independent state is robbed of power, land, jobs and business and life.

Anonymous said...

I find justification of separate Andhra state and opposition to De Merger entirely selfish and hypocritical.

How can you justify separate Andhra state claiming "all kinds of things" which tamils contend?

And forcibly merge against Telangana which is already a separate state de-facto. It was a political decision and people desire. No one in Telangana joined your struggle and we do not care.

Simple because we do not want your trouble. Please understand nothing personal here.


Also how dare you call GO 610 comparable to reservation? Give repect to the merger accord or back out of merger. No two ways ...
You had a choice then and now too

Reservation is anyways implemented too(good or bad) but one thing is clear either merger with merger accord or no point in merger. It is take over ..

Given also with disgusting argument of all andhrites that telangana fine with no hyderabad their intention is clear ... u come from no where as guests in our capital and speak this way .. I sometimes think why are we letting you stay ... U are unwanted guests or unwanted and troublesome tenants. You got to be shown the door.

Anonymous said...

Errata:

Please read my last blog this way:


It was a political decision and NOT people desire. No one in Telangana joined your struggle and we do not care.

Anonymous said...

I find justification of separate Andhra state and opposition to De Merger entirely selfish and hypocritical.

How can you justify separate Andhra state claiming "all kinds of things" which tamils contend?

And forcibly merge against Telangana which is already a separate state de-facto. It was a political decision and NOT people desire. No one in Telangana joined your struggle and we do not care.

Simple because we do not want your trouble. Please understand nothing personal here.


Also how dare you call GO 610 comparable to reservation? Give repect to the merger accord or back out of merger. No two ways ...
You had a choice then and now too

Reservation is anyways implemented too(good or bad) but one thing is clear either merger with merger accord or no point in merger. It is take over ..

Given also with disgusting argument of all andhrites that telangana fine with no hyderabad their intention is clear ... u come from no where as guests in our capital and speak this way .. I sometimes think why are we letting you stay ... U are unwanted guests or unwanted and troublesome tenants. You got to be shown the door.

Anonymous said...

Mr Anonymous(separatist),

All you did is trash talk. Let me try differently if you are willing to read.

This argument that Telangana was formed even before independence, willfully with collective intent of all telugu people under telanaga, is ridiculous. It was what Nizam of Hyderabad has decided what his empire would be based on what we could keep with connivance of British. How far ago you are willing to go into the history of Andhra desa to decide these fake boundaries ? Do you know what the boundaries of Telugu kingdom under Krishna Devaraya in 15h century, or Kakatiyas in 12 the century or Satavahanas in 100 BC or under zillion kings in between. The modern AP state was formed on the basis of language, their culture and heritage, and at the same time it fulfilled the definition of state based on size that is administratively manageable.

The example of Bihar is absolutely essential and the closest one can get if somebody wants to learn from past mistakes. It completely debunks the separatist theory and its beneficiaries.

The real reason for separatism is looting of people as you fervently pointed out in your earlier post. It is basically looters from Telangana (you call them separatists) saying that looters from Andhra are looting better than them, and they are loosing in this looting game. They strongly fight for equality in this regard, and with separate state they would like to end this competition and keep the bounty for themselves. This is exactly what is going on with people like KCR and their supporters. I vividly remember Jai Andhra movement that spread like wild fire in 1971 where many schools were closed, buses were burnt, trains were stopped for months as part of the agitation.What was the final result. The looters from both araes agreed to have some understanding in the territories where they can loot.

The histrory is repeating again. The intellectuals, media and the responsible people of this state need to stand up and tell these people to take their looting game somewhere else and leave us alone. We are not going to fall for this whining and cannot be used as pawns.


Thanks,
APman.

Anonymous said...

Well I am the Anonymous who seek De Merger. ( please use this term with any my reference) I am not related to parties seeking separate Telangana(to send a feeling that they achieved).The right word is DE Merger and Status Quo of September 17th.

Can i please dare to ask you to put facts in 1, 2, 3 with commission reports, boundaries and population wise, Influx, infrastructure, River water sharing etc and say why are you against De Merger.

Please read again.

1. Separate Movement for Andhra desa( Look it is a region of yours we are not related to it) Times have changed Zillion years ago Man was a monkey, India is fused to Antartica and there was no Islam. So get realistic, I could even with research say we are different but i wonder with People who do not agree that

1. Telangana state under B.Ramakrishna existed when Andhra were under Tamils

2. SRC commision, Nehru disagreed to Merger(He knew us as a virgin lands and say this merger will be exploitation). Ramakrishna struck a deal with Brahmins of Andhra for self survival and rider that this AP experiment has to be reviewed. There was major dissent to this merger in Telangana slowly culminating to 1969 uprising.

4. Well chest beating and self definitions of Andhra desa, does not help your reason.When we identify Andhra as a region not our identity esp when 10 districts constituting 45% of population demand and say we want to be free buddy.

5.Well it is our self respect, and assertion of our rights, we won with great sacrifice on September 17th 1948. The day we are proud off for on this day, we integrated our holy land to Mother India. We have great respect for this day, as we have spl place for any important day in History.

6. But some Andhrites come here, forced and not paying respects to Matrys of our region they made their home but even bans it( like that fool Brahmananda Reddy alleged to have decided staying in the capital of Telangana) is akin to foreign rule suppressing locals.

May i ask Andhrites/Rayalseema a question which you have not answered.

1. What is your problem with STATUS QUO 1948 SEP 17th our freedom day. Please understand we do not desired or sought merger with you. It was you, who sought separate state from Tamilians. We are free.

2. Why do you and what is your locus standi in opposing De Merger, you cannot be unwanted tenants right?

3. If De Merger does not help cause of Telangana too that is for us to decide, how to fix rogue politicians. Dont worry too much. It is laughable for you to speak. lol

4. Isn't it strange that none of the Andhra leaders said hey I think there is unethical going on ..
1. Rivers has to be shared per population and land and river flow not because machinary is Andhrites...

2. Jobs and contracts has to be fair to all not based on Andhra-Andhra, Rayalseema - Rayalseema brotherly means.

3. Fundamentally respect the Merger accord and please do not consider your place as representative of Telugus.. we may not be best telugu speaking people but we are 10 districts and we always want to be as we were Independent. As we were until black day of AP formation.

But the audacity of Andhra/Rayalseema Leech mentality is clear when you say " Ok Telangana, take it but Hyderabad forget it.

Please understand, we are seeking .. we are infact asking you to leave. Where is the question of giving in this?

Well walk down the memory lanes and you see every infrastructure already exists before and it is purely cosmopolitan culture of all regions staying here. But some Andhras investing strictly for reaping benefits does not claim it yours.

Well if your tenant who is forcibly living, makes changes to house and claims the house as theirs?

You know the hurt ... tell these chest beating Andhra/Rayalseema people who have views( unwarranted) on Telangana issue that Telangana minus Hyderabad presto they are more than ready ... STANDS EXPOSED

Well ask me if i have views for Andhra to be united or divided i would say it is upto them as i am persona non grata. Well i wish Andhrites/Rayalseema too realise that they are persona non grata as regards to Telangana is considered.

Party time is over friends... pack up along with your brothers and go home.

Anonymous said...

I agree with Anonymous regarding Telangana.

Well i think definetly things to ponder the so called Andhrites and Rayalseema are ready for concensus any time any day on Telangana issue minus Hyderabad.. Isn't quite strange!! Well that speak the ethics. Having failed to get chennai inspite of they being majority, kicked out these Andhrites trying to virtual hijack the Hyderabad which is deep in center of Telangana.

Why most of Andhrites are speaking virtues and advantages of being together is very clear. They are the one to loose.

These Andhra agitation head ache on Telangana.

kuffir said...

anonymous (ap man)

write to me..i'll send you an invite to orkut..

anonymous (pro-separation),

you have not responded to my response to your comments.. but i'd like to respond to some of the points you raised..

1. 'So get realistic, I could even with research say we are different but i wonder with People who do not agree that...'

so let's get realistic..why do you wish to stick with india?

2. 'SRC commision, Nehru disagreed to Merger(He knew us as a virgin lands..blah..blah..'

how does that matter..if telanganis didn't want it..their representatives wouldn't have signed the merger pact. how major is major dissent and who measured it.?. there was dissent, but the merger was okayed so don't rake it up now..

3.'When we identify Andhra as a region not our identity esp when 10 districts constituting 45% of population demand and say we want to be free buddy.'

what is your identity? telangana? so demand a separate nation.. and also chuck your mother tongue out because it sounds too much like telugu, ancient language of the andhras..

5.'Well it is our self respect, and assertion of our rights, we won with great sacrifice on September 17th 1948.'

'you' didn't win anything on that day..if we follow your logic that telangana was unwillingly merged with andhra, then telangana was forcefully annexed by 'mother india' on setember 17th, 1948..

6.'But some Andhrites come here, forced and not paying respects to Matrys...'

it's not the andhraites but the congress party which didn't like paying respects to the 'martyrs' of telangana peasants' struggle because most of the martyrs were communists! don't ingest whatever false notions about history that the trs throws at you - most likely kcr's ancestors were also among those who opposed the celebration of martyrs' day. and on the day telangana was annexed by 'mother india' kcr's forefathers were probably hiding behind the nizam's skirts in hyderabad..

and lastly, please whenever you wish to respond to someone please quote the name of the person you're responding to..

APman said...

Anonymous(pro-separation) wrote:


I agree with Anonymous regarding Telangana.

Well i think definetly things to ponder the so called Andhrites and Rayalseema are ready for concensus any time any day on Telangana issue minus Hyderabad.. Isn't quite strange!! Well that speak the ethics. Having failed to get chennai inspite of they being majority, kicked out these Andhrites trying to virtual hijack the Hyderabad which is deep in center of Telangana.


Good try. But one could argue the other way too. Let me state this way. These separatists want separate Telangana but when somebody proposes Telangana minus Hyderabad, they show their true colors as if they are only interested to grab Hyderabad, and very little interested in rest of Telangana. Isn’t it quite strange?. Having failed to develop their own region, and having seen the growth of Hyderabad under capital centric policies of the state, they are trying to virtually hijack Hyderabad, the common capital for the last 50 years.

Therefore it goes both ways. Now I will see posts arguing that it is not the same and all they are asking is to bring it back to 1950. This is like Pakistan after 50 years of occupation and changing demographics of Kashmir, asking for plebiscite as per 1948 declaration. Like any other states, AP also became capital centric in all growth initiatives. In India, we still follow the concept of Rajdhani, where it is the city of all the people of the state. Unfortunately 50 years passed, and you can not goback. We need to move forward.

Anonymous said...

I am Anonymous(De-Merger)

kuffir, i read your comments you seem to say that,
1. I have not responded to your questions. I am not sure what are they?

2. But i am sorry, you have some basics wrong and you seem to suggest what we should demand? Please think if you have that right to suggest us. I find as funny as you would feel to ask you what you should demand.. ha ha ha

So "so let's get realistic..why do you wish to stick with india?
" is most rediculous question i have ever encountered. Not worth answering. I do want to engage in this silly questionnaire. We have sacrificed most in integrating this land to our mother india. Please think twice before opening line of debate.


kuffir says"
-----------------------------------
3. how does that matter..if telanganis didn't want it..their representatives wouldn't have signed the merger pact. how major is major dissent and who measured it.?. there was dissent, but the merger was okayed so don't rake it up now..
-----------------------------------
My response:

Do you really my blogs? Do you really aware of the political equation and conditions for merger, clause of review of point in the commission? Please read my blogs and commission and quote me line by line:

Quick review:

It was Andrites/Rayalseema people who wanted separate from tamil. We the people of Telangana have not supported, opposed or involved in this mess. It was Andhra, which was burning.

B.Ramakrishna, being a brahmin CM at those times to scuttle the powerful reddys in Telangana state made friends with Brahmin Andhra leaders and agreed for merger.

This merger comes with Merger accord ( conditions for merger) 2. This experiment(as it was called then, to be reviewed) is clearly documented. + The fact that none of the intelligensia were agreeable. Telangana people protested vehemently but it was not strong enough as We were convinced that it was experiment, and Telangana people were well protected etc ..etc . all this culminating to 1969 agitation to kick Andhrites/Rayalseema out.

SIMPLE.. RESPECT THE MERGER ACCORD AND STAY PUT.. But for last 50+ years irrepairable damage is done to our people and the parity in power, jobs, land can only be corrected with status quo 1948.
Well lot more reasons...

Repeated comments from kuffir says"

-----------------------------------
what is your identity? telangana? so demand a separate nation.. and also chuck your mother tongue out because it sounds too much like telugu, ancient language of the andhras.. "
-----------------------------------
My response:

I dont think you would like the idea of being dubbed traitor. Our separate identity is in tune with the existing boundaries, cultures and food habits" but we love Mother india like any other regions. But again please think again right and wrong in assuming what u should think for us to demand? I dont remember anyone patriot asking Andhrite why not separate nation? All we ask and say is in tune with many hardcore Andhrites/Rayalseema felt in those days of separate Andhra state. Probably you should note that there was a dissent with this merger from Andhrites too.

kuffir says"

'you' didn't win anything on that day..if we follow your logic that telangana was unwillingly merged with andhra, then telangana was forcefully annexed by 'mother india' on setember 17th, 1948.."

Well again, please think before this line of thinking, which i am sure you are not but appears traitor. We have 50+ years of elections and none in the world can change the identity of indians from us. Barbarian kings who destroyed our ancient temples, forced people to convert and made to pay jijiya tax, destroyed scores of temples and constructed masjids. thousands were killed when refused to convert to islam.Many thousands were converted and 850 years thus, mother india was under foreign rule then came British rule, then some converted muslims said they want separate country for muslims and divided our holy land, took unproportional assets in the name of brother after bloody blood shed. Well do we need any plebecite? We have 3 times + more population still in India though any time, now then and any time they could move to pakistan on the basis of religion. where is our voice friend? Well if you go by numbers, pakistan should be null and void as people rejected it hands down. But who is asking?

Who is asking that for every hindy sacred religious site is either destroyed or masjid is put near, by the muslim kings.

We do not see that in vatican(country), mecca or madina .. forget having hindu religious site attached to mecca or madina but even non muslims are not permitted and punished for praying in public and we have full respectful diplomatic relationship with such countries and we do not talk of racism .. hmmm brother please do not cheapen us this way ...


But all this discussion is not related and i think you are not supposed to even think that we are annexed by india( it was rather bad in taste) and please treat my discussion on this subject close and final.


kuffir says"
-----------------------------------
it's not the andhraites but the congress party which didn't like paying respects to the 'martyrs' of telangana peasants' struggle because most of the martyrs were communists! don't ingest whatever false notions about history that the trs throws at you - most likely kcr's ancestors were also among those who opposed the celebration of martyrs' day. and on the day telangana was annexed by 'mother india' kcr's forefathers were probably hiding behind the nizam's skirts in hyderabad..

and lastly, please whenever you wish to respond to someone please quote the name of the person you're responding to..

----------------------------------

I think you assume a lot of wrong .. let me correct your misconceptions.

1. Why bring in kcr or trs while discussing Telangana? It is same as discussing TDP while we discuss Andhra!! Well they are political party and they are hated/loves as much as any other party. For record TRS is baby in politics. I reserve my judgement on them.

2. I am not sure, how sure you are about anyone's role during our struggle to fight Razakars.

But most families in telangana have suffered from Razakars ( anti "kafir" army, silencing a much better nizam(he is a much better man, is accepted by all and respected by all).


As regards to move forward message to another anonymous(thanks brother we are close, should ensure to reach finish line) Well for the reasons mentioned in my first blog ... we need atleast 100 years to solve the disprity and develop the feeling from within and not impose on us. We must prosper and gain the respect and compete in studies and positions and have people to people contact, then probably we can unite agian. But now it is only Andhra/Rayalseema who will exploit us. Jai Telangana

Anonymous said...

One final comment:
Anonymous( for De Merger)

Why do you think of Telangana without hyderabad? Do you think of you without ur head or heart.

Hyderabad is in center of Telangana. check the map! So i your comments funny! Well we would react and laught at same way when you ask us to think of Telangana without Medak or Ranga Reddy or Adilabad as you cannot think of you without head, heart, stomach etc. Sorry i want to avoid but for once i want to take as redicoulous example as examples some quote here.

APman said...

We definitely know people that think without head and hearts. Otherwise why would this meaningless drama continue for 50 years and why would the real issues continued to be diverted with jingoism.

You claim to be telanganite. Looks like you know so little of it. If you want to magnify the differences between people and culture, the difference between Adilabad and Mehabbob Nagar is more pronounced than differences between Mehaboob nagar vs Kurnool or East Godavari vs Khammam or Guntur vs Nalgonda. That debunks your headless theory. May be you need to come up with more ridiculous example.

The non-developmental issue of Telanagna is true just like non-developmental issues of Rayalaseema or Andhra. We all need to be developed. That is what we should fight for. The whole issue of separate Telangana is becoming like emperors new clothes and it is time to expose this for good.

kuffir said...

anonymous (pro-separation)

you still haven't answered my question - why do you wish to stick with india ?

what i've got in response was a rant against muslims and..how 'mother india' suffered for the last 800 years and so on..you seem to have a lot in common with the rss line of thinking..

and please stop bandying about abusive words like 'traitor' - i am standing up for telangana and all telugus. if the telugus can't stay united i don't see any point in sticking with india with which we have much less in common. and i am asking that your separatist ideas be carried forward to their logical conclusion - ask for a sparate nation.. who am i a traitor to - 'telangana' or 'mother india'.? it seems more like you are a traitor to 'telangana' because you wish to stick with 'mother india' which, according to your own views, merged 'telangana' with andhra against its interests and 'experimented' with its destiny.

my reference to kcr was an intuitive response to your weak knowledge of history.. your 'history' is a gift of the trs (apart from the rss, of course)..and is a very narrow-minded one.. i told you why the congress didn't want to celebrate september 17th.. i guess the trs never told you that..

i'll not bother to respond to your point about de-merger etc., because you seem to agree the dissent was weak.. but you seem to feel it was a reddy vs brahmin battle.. i agree with you to an extent - the trs now seems very keen to rejuvenate this battle and make it a war for the rights of the reddies and other upper castes..

kuffir said...

anonymouis (pro-separation),

'But most families in telangana have suffered from Razakars ( anti "kafir" army, silencing a much better nizam(he is a much better man, is accepted by all and respected by all).'

much better nizam? your 'history' is truly amusing.. the razakars were only the last straw on the heap of oppression piled on the telanganis..please read my post ' a horror story' to know a little about this 'much better nizam'..

i don't know who's been feeding you nonsense about telangana under the nizams but i don't think they've actually suffered under the nizams..

the only class of people who felt 'much better' under the nizams were the jagirdars/deshmukhs etc., and other feudal lords like kcr's family etc.,now i am convinced your biggest source of 'history' is the trs..

please stop pontificating on 'history' you don't know anything about..

kuffir said...

anonymous (pro-separation),

speaking of reddy vs brahmins and reddy vs ..blah blah.. and war for the rights of the upper castes of telangana.. i think the trs is doing a commendable job of upholding the rights of the upper castes in telangana.. if not a separate telangana, the centre should at least consider granting a separate 'reddinadu' to satisfy uppunutala purushottam reddi, palvai goverdhan reddi and other reddies and a separate 'velamanadu' to satisfy kcr, ch.vidyasagar rao and others..

that should solve the problem, don't you think?

Anonymous said...

I see a problem Kuffir,

Kuffir says"you still haven't answered my question - why do you wish to stick with india ? "

My response

Well please read my answers again. I cannot myselves be lowered to this level of argument.

Anyway i repeat for 4th time:

We are not asking any separation!! We are asking status quo 1948 Sep 17th. Well if you do not understand this, buddy you have a problem. Separation was asked by your brothers Andhrites from tamil nadu. Please can you pose this question to them? I love India and what constitutes india.

Finally i will not ask you what food u eat, why not that? why not this? Why your relative is your relative not someother? India is my umblical chord. No more repeating of this answer.

2. It was more than 900 years of Islamic rule then came british rule then the converted wanted pakistan and Bangladesh. Hindus are i think the only religion having raw deal in their own country and i have told you in a perspective you sought as you seem to mix up nationalism + regionalism, I promised not to comment any more and if you contend this historic fact/blunder so be it. Focus is on Telangana as state as on Sep 17th 1948.

Kuffir says"Rantings on differnces in people within telangana etc "

My response

Please read my last blog... We must all meet at a common point and start afresh to solve this issue, i am much more clear.

Here i want to answer your last blog and you assumed it was brahmins vs Reddys.. your blog is exaggeration of my mention and intention and you seem to play etopian theories (I like them)

Well there was no Brahmin vs Reddys It was B.Ramakrishna's survival( The fact is, with total brahmin population of telangana, not a village head can be elected) So It was a strategy of individual please do not talk of castes and you understood me wrong.

Now to sum up for last time, i would spend on your blogs ...

All i said was power to telangana however corrupt is a necessary to change the disgusting situation.
We have at stake, our respect, our jobs, our identity, our lands, river water share, Minerals and Govt contracts and ensuring that when projects are planned, land sale freeze is done so that rich Andhrites do not buy the land and make locals as mean workers.
We need to update our skills and compete in education and all higher jobs.

Now the problem from telangana side

1. We have not involved in Andhra struggle either supported/Opposed and this merger of Andhra has affected the lives of our people.

2. If you think all telugus to be united, i appreciate it. We have been together for 50 years+ and i know the humuliation based in college in my own telangana by andhra collegues(almost all faced). Andhrites look down on us and that is the fact and increasingly becoming big head ache.

3. Proof is before you, representaion in jobs, education, lands etc have to achieved.

4. As mentioned in last blog, we will be one when both sides feel to be one and want to be one, not a minority people.

5. Please kaffir, i am not sure u read my blog or simply write .. but do not humiliate us limiting our movement only to TRS(I have clearly told you) tomorrow if congress or MIM asks for Telangana.. we follow them. TRS is a baby and personally i have nothing to do with them.

You assume too much and start attributing motives that i am influenced etc. I am in software and i have no time to listen to any crap.

You made some personnal remark that we are not affected by nizam.. please desist statements you are not aware. We know and i know better.

I am discussing Telangana sentiment which as a state existed independently and feeling which exists in every person. Please do not bring in individuals. Sonia or Kcr are political people and i do not trust them till they deliver,to dub telangana people to TRS is same as saying all muslims as pakistanis or Jinnah's people.


6. Respect is the key word friend, i have my feelings in heart for telangana and i am pulled into blogging when YSR humiliated us by not respecting our sacrifice day, brushing us off with crooked smile and inciting Andhra MP who said in interview about dozen times that separation is like kids seeking gifts. That is it. I will not allow my selves to be taken for ride by the oppressors, with no culture forgetting that today if every Andhrite leaves telanagana and go backt to Andhra agitation, we have achieved our Telangana.

Matter of facts remain facts

1. Telangana existed as independent state
2. Andhrites did agitation and sought separate state.
3. Merger of Andhra is conditional and political not social. That is the serious mistake. One should have let this feeling of one telugu develop and consensus of people must have been achieved. But ...
4. GO 610 is a commission report by independent body to be respected. It will be feel good factor if Govt apologises for not implementing the GO.
5. Some protection mechanism to uplift telangana people, govt contracts, jobs and quality of life and river water sharing to be addressed.
6.Well respect telangana culture and people and boundaries.

Then a day will come, people of telangana and Andhrites increase the necessity to unite. That day is when i look for.

But for now, natural correction has to happen.

Finally, if you read my blog carefully you will notice that i said " I dont believe that you are a traitor but your questioning us why to be in india appears so" I never said you are traitor. I never attribute personnal motives without knowing them. I do not know anything about you.

We just share thoughts. People want telangana .. repect should be given is my opinion.

Opposition is clear from the people who oppress us and their opposition is a strength of people who sow hatred.

To sum up, I again blame the Andhra agitation for this mess. Had it been dealt firmly till all telugu people from all parts desire to be one and in unity lies the strength. Systems should have allowed this and then state should have formed with principles of equity, but alas it did not happen.

You know AP leaders refused to accept Kolar gold fields and Hampi regions upto TB dam as AP for telugu population but Andhra leaders refused to take those areas in AP, prompting SRC commission head to document " I offered the Gold in AP platter, their leaders had an audacity to refuse" Well you know why political leaders of AP refused to take those areas in fold? It was to avoid powerful Gowdas in power struggle!! Well the conclusion is simple Let the staus quo come, let correction come, let some prosperity come( Politics is corruption) yet Andhra politicians are no better. Then when the feeling is realized that we need to be united and be respectful to all regions, AP formation can again happen and that time for good. Not now.

kuffir said...

anonymous (pro-separation),

you still have not answered my question - why do you wish to stick with what you call 'mother india' when you don't see any substance in the idea of 'one telugu identity'?

your answer as i said is a rant against muslims and not adequate...

you'd already lowered the level of argument when you started ranting against andhraites by asking them to leave, go.. what was that ? 'Party time is over friends... pack up along with your brothers and go home.' you call that civil..? and there was much more of that kind in your responses.. and what was that 'traitors'? i had asked you to drop the trs kind of terminbology - 'drohulu/sathruvu' etc, earlier.. but i guess it's too temtpting .



on september 17 1948, there was no telangana state ..there was only hyderabad state.. do you want that?

if you want waters...you demand waters ..don't play to the gallery by saying the andhraites are the cause of our misery etc., your blogs (comments?) are mere reproductions of trs propaganda - they offer no solutions . they just offer excuses and one so-called panacea - separation - 'we don't like the andhraites' but we'd still like stay in india !' an india in which andhra, the betrayer, would still be a part. an india which had 'experimented' with the lives of telanganis..

i'll keep referring to trs because your every comment reeks of the propaganda unleashed by the half-witted 'intellectuals/think tank' of the trs..

the trs nostalgia for the nizams, their revisionist interpretation of the region's history of repression, and its (trs') leadership - all remind me of what's fundamentally wrong with telangana .,.the lack of a strong, broadminded, rights' conscious middle class and a leadership still controlled by selfish,feudal elements..

APman said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
APman said...

Once there was a poor man, and after some praying and penance, God got appeased and appeared in front of him, and gave him a boon. The supreme Lord would have given him whatever he wanted: more wealth, happiness, job, and ofcourse water. But this man surprised God with a convoluted request. The poor man demanded, ' just make my maternal uncle to have some hair in his ear, and I don’t need any more help from you.' God pitied on him and persuaded him to change his mind by offering wealth, gold, land etc. But our hero is very adamant and refused all the offers, and stuck to his original demand. God, helpless at the stupidity of this devotee, fulfilled his boon. According to this person’s superstitions, having a maternal uncle with hair over his ear, is a good sign for him to be prosperous. You can imagine the rest of the story.

The de-merger demand and status-quo of September 1948 is very similar to this man’s request: Just give separate state, everything will be alright.

APman said...

Kuffir posted

“the trs nostalgia for the nizams, their revisionist interpretation of the region's history of repression, and its (trs') leadership - all remind me of what's fundamentally wrong with telangana .,.the lack of a strong, broadminded, rights' conscious middle class and a leadership still controlled by selfish,feudal elements..”

Couldn’t agree more. The feudalism and the suppression under nizams are so unique for this part of the region, which resulted in creation of communist party of India based on its rebellion against nizam. The nostalgia of nizam’s rule imagined by speratists validates the theory that so many separatists are very romantic about separatism without knowing the history as well as the consequences of separation.

Anonymous said...

For tall the bloggers here..
a. why is telanga region so undeveloped.
b. in an agrarian country why is this area devoid of water resouces when 2 major river flow thru.
c. inspite of so much developent in Hyderabad why is there so little spill over development in the sourrounding districts.
d. if all the andhra leaders are so better leaders than the MLA's from telangana who are traiters and opportunists who do care about their consituents and andhra people and leaders are better people and leaders.. (which seems to be the assumption among these posts) why have they (andhra leaders with all the control of the government machinary and resources let such vast part of the state to be ingored and left it utterly undeveloped.
And for all this if Telangan's population is going bonkers what's wrong with it..

Anonymous said...

Well I was just about to your blog in my note as i have expressed my thoughts on it and i promised i will not put any blog which u are the owner BUT

you still carry the question i have answered all times.
Q. why telangana to be in india?
Answer. Just like i am nobody to tell u what to do, or what to think No one can tell any one about it esp as almost 90% people of Telangana desire to go back to old glory of their own state, 100% of people i presume and atleast 100% i presume i am from India.

Why we ask Andhrites to pack their backs is their poking nose in telangana demand, Well they are here be here, leave politics, make money but when they interfere in Telangana sentiment, Humiliate us( Like i faced and many of my region)in college in Telangana. If they talk as stupid as land grabbers like Go take telangana, Hyderabad is not yours then you see natural human reaction. So nothing personal but message is clear respect the sentiments of local region. Much of the land in B'lore is owned by Rayalseema Reddys settled in karnataka. They are merged in society and same should be here.

Also It is important all High postions too are filled with Telangana people by GO 610. Basically honour all commitments of merger and slowly

When both Telanganan state and Andhra state is looked down in central ministries, budget and neighbour states power rises slowly Andhrites and Telangana people will realize that in Unity lies the strength. That day when it is on mutual respect where there is not sub regional feeling in oppression and when all regions are assured of equivalent share of minerals and natual resources and water on that day it will be movement from people to unite and to form AP again.

But till then accpting a problem and working is better than pretending or suppression or Oppression.

Yeah i fully with you, on your final remarks in the end.

Till that ideal time..of Telugudesa, TeluguNadu or TeluguRajyam ... let we get Telangana. Jai Telangana

APman said...

Anonymous,

Check my responses in bold. These are nothing new, and are already discussed in many posts.

For tall the bloggers here..
a. why is telanga region so undeveloped.

I too would like to know the answer. I would like to know why the entire AP was under developed except few pockets here and there.


b. in an agrarian country why is this area devoid of water resources when 2 major river flow thru.

Well, about 2000 tmc of water goes to ocean every year. Nobody diverted water from one region to another. We elect leaders that supposed to take care of the problems of the constituency. But none of them care. They go to assembly and dump all election promises. If you question them, they will point finger at somebody else and we fall for it. Whom do we blame? I guess all of us.

c. inspite of so much developent in Hyderabad why is there so little spill over development in the sourrounding districts.

Good question. Now you imagine the plight of the districts far away from Hyderabad. Every rupee they’ve spent is on Hyderabad because all our MLAs and their families lived there, and ignored rest of the state. Had they distributed the growth across the state, not just Hyderabad, this separate state discussion would not have been there. In fact, in some ways, the seperate Telanaga issue was a conspiracy to take away Hyderabad after entire state invested their heart and soul in the city for 50 years

d. if all the andhra leaders are so better leaders than the MLA's from telangana who are traiters and opportunists who do care about their consituents and andhra people and leaders are better people and leaders.. (which seems to be the assumption among these posts) why have they (andhra leaders with all the control of the government machinary and resources let such vast part of the state to be ingored and left it utterly undeveloped.
And for all this if Telangan's population is going bonkers what's wrong with it..

No. Your assumption is wrong. All politicians, regardless of the region, don’t care about constituents. There are places in AP that are worse than Telanagana (read latest comments from Mr M S Rao in Vizag ) and there is no voice for them.. In all development indices AP languishes around 8-12th place in the Nation. This is true in spite of the fact that people of AP are very successful in all parts of India and the world. I would have been happy had we gone bonkers for that, but not for misdirected jingoism.

Anonymous said...

I find serious issue with Telangana medhavulu. How did they let KCR tie his political fortunes with separate state fortunes, and jeopardize separate T movement?. If he wins Karimnagar, probably nothing happens. If he loses, the Gini will be kept back in the bottle and buried forever.

Anonymous said...

This is a people movement that will stand on its own feet with or without KCR. if KCR wins more power to him and if not its still OK, another leader will fill the vacum (if any created) because people are behind this movemet. It will be fallacy to beleive that somehow KCR will make or break this issue. Since he is a politician in all its sense, he has chosen to make his fortunes by backing this movement. That is fine for Telanga People becasue some person or instituion has to keep this issue politically alive on their (people's) behalf. KCR is fine to represent this cause as long as he is true to the end goal or Telangana's developmemt. If he does not, one other KCR with come to fill that gap. So we dont need to think that is somehow an end game. Telanga's developement fight is much more bigger than just 1 or 2 KCR's.

kuffir said...

anonymous (last),

what is telanga? what is telanga' development fight ?
and i request all anonymous commenters here to identify themselves by some name/pseudonym...because it's becoming quite confusing here identifying who's saying what..

APman said...

If KCR fails in this election, the separate T movement is over. If he wins, the stalemate continues. This is the kind of predicament this movement is locked into. When you are in plane and want to reach safe destination, you better have right pilot. You can’t assume if not KCR somebody else will pilot it. What he really did is to hijack the plane, and if he crashes there is no plane. Pumping millions of dollars into TRS, telanagana medhavulu in Amercia too got short sighted and lost the purpose.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous (appeal to Settlers from Andhra)
I call upon Intelligent and Discerning Andhra Friends who have worked hard and participated in building Hyderabad along with everybody else to support telangana and developemt in telangana. Dont turn a blind eye to the abuse Telangana region people have suffered and are suffering due to neglect by successive governments. you dont live in Andhra anymore, Hyderabad is your home support developemnt of region that you are calling home and support telangana movement and force the powers to be to support and uplift the population in this area. U dont need to blindly believe all the coverups and one sided arguments few andhra leaders of power are wanting you to belive and tell them loud and clear that you call hyderabad , part of telangana your home and you are determined to bring development to this region and make it prorsperous like the water rich Andhra region. thank You.

Anonymous said...

I have just hit on this forum... after reading thru all the posts it sounds like another PR campaign by Andhra Lobby to mire Telangana Movement people in useless discussions and hyperanalysis..
I have heard the same fruitless arguments by anti-telangana supporters who are either andhrite's and some intellectual telanganite's (who have lost touch of reality in Telangana today) and live in cloud nine all the time because they are living comfortable lives in US.
Ordinary Folks who havent even gone to school understood the issues and solutions better than post graduate Degree holders.. sp people wake up and get sucked into this "paralysis by Analysis syndrome".
This issue is not as difficult as you all are making it sound.
jai Telangana

Anonymous said...

whats upo Kufr
Long time no Hear..
You lost elections in karimnagar too..

kuffir said...

anonymous (last three),

i didn't contest any elections in karimagar... trs and congress were working off their excess fat and the results indicate nothing.
i don't there is any andhra lobby...just as there isn't any telangana lobby- just a few upper caste, feudal, unemployed business-politicians, funded by andhra and marwari money trying to stir up some excitement on pseudo-sentiments. and some bored, frustrated nris who have no careers in the u.s., and wish to vent their frustration in a.p.,
anonymous who thinks i am from the u.s., and seems to think illiteracy is telangana's advantage should read my post first..it's about meddling nris in the u.s., who offer juvenile slogans as 'development' advice to people living and working in andhra pradesh....
my advice for all anonymous commenters- please choose any pseudonym so that it'd be easier to identify each one of you and respond accordingly.. there are more telangana posts coming up in a few weeks, so wait and watch (like good chowkidar kcr outside sonia's home).

APman said...

anonymous,

Why do you label people from other parts of the state as settlers?. It is their basic right to live in their state capital. Moreover they are very hard working people coming from distant places while adopting to new environment. A person from Srikakulam has the same right to live in whatever way he wants to live as a person from Karimnagar. He/She doesn't owe anything more to people of Telanagna than he/she does to people of Andhra Pradesh. Don’t be carried away by this political glorification of telangana. It is only propagated for political benefits. The only entitlement people are entitled to is education, water and health. There are already 107 mlas supposed to be working on this. Please direct your ire at them.

Anonymous said...

apman
there is nothing against anybody coming to hyderabad and wanting to make a living there. the objection is about mass migration of people of one region(andhra) to another (telangana) and using the might of power and money to supress the locals and make their life better. there is no moral justification for that.
And i would even go to the extent of saying that there it is propable human nature to do so.. because essentially greed drives peoples lives these days.. so its propably only natural that they have exploited the system as long as they could and which ever the way they could . now the local people have finally realzied what is going and how to fight it.. so they are saying come live here and make better life for youself but not at the expense of us. Also it is a wake up signal from people in power that you just cannot keep taking money from andhra lobby to fill you r bank accounts and keep robbing telangana people in all ways and means.
So the jist being any person from srikakulam is as welcome as a person from sikkim to come and make a living in hyderabad or any part of telangana but the people of telangana will make sure that they are not going to do it by exploiting them.
annonymous (Realist)

kuffir said...

anonymous (last),

why don't you read your own comments, sometimes? what makes you think a separate telangana would ensure that people from andhra wouldn't be able to 'exploit' local people, to use your terminology? also could you please explain what do you mean by 'exploitation'?

APman said...

Anonymous(realist),

You need to give us some example of how a so called Hyderabad settler from Srikakulam used his money power to suppress another settler from Karimnagar. Even if I proved wrong, I should be left with consolation of money power of poor Srikakulam guy that I dreamed of so much, and the long sought cooperation between Delta and Srikakulam.You don’t need to tell me that you don’t have any issue with a person from Sikkim. We are already aware of this dichotomy and gives a synopsis of the politics behind this.

Anonymous said...

Mr Pro Andhra, Why dont you read the history right? Please read SRC commission by firdoze ali( if i am spelling it right).

"383: If Telangana feeling crystalizes and feel that do not get justice they need to identified as separate entity"

"Telangana is educationally most backward and certainly has to be protected and should be prefered in jobs to balance the more educated Andhra people."
Unfortunately Indira gandhi's political decision to dilute all our protection mechanism by buying the corrupt Telangana leaders is cause of this problem. Indira Gandhi has done more harm than anyone else to Telangana people.

Now how else can you explain the Telangana area GDP which was more than Andhras during pre merger is much less than Andhras now?
How come we represent only 6% in Govt jobs where as Andhras are more. How come Andhras are using fake telangana certificates to get jobs in Telangana. We lost 300000+ jobs in govt and are victimized now. NOT GOOD ... We need a separate state as existed. Name you call it Hyderabad state or Telangana dont care.

APman said...

You very well know they are bunch of lies. Needless to say they are from TDF. The only thing accurate is that Telangana leaders are corrupt (just like the rest of the leaders from other regions). And for that you want separate Telangana. Is that all?

kuffir said...

Anonymous (pro-separation)

'Mr Pro Andhra, Why dont you read the history right? Please read SRC commission by firdoze ali( if i am spelling it right).'

no you didn't get the right spelling -0 it is fazal ali, and you didn't get the inference right either...

'Now how else can you explain the Telangana area GDP which was more than Andhras during pre merger is much less than Andhras now?'

this isn't correct either - hyderabad state had a surplus budget and andhra didn't. don't you understand the difference between 'budget' and 'gdp'? of course you don't - why would you fall prey to the illogical rants of the trs otherwise?

'How come we represent only 6% in Govt jobs where as Andhras are more. How come Andhras are using fake telangana certificates to get jobs in Telangana. We lost 300000+ jobs in govt and are victimized now.'

And who gave you these figures? No commission until now has identified the exact number of 'jobs' that were supposedly taken away from telanganis - even the girglani commission only 'estimates', not identifies, not more than 10,000 as the total no of infractions of the 610 g.o., in *all* zones, not just in telangana..

no good - utterly prejudiced people like you need to leave telangana before this region can progress.

kuffir said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
APman said...

Finally the number of employees to be repatriated from zone vi turn out to be some 5000 odd employees. 2500 of them from other districts of telangana. Turn out to be..Much ado about nothing.

Anonymous said...

http://innocentandhra.blogspot.com/

pradeep said...

v want telangana
v want our govt jobs back
v want our own identity
v want our muslims to be recognized
v want our own governance
v want true politicians unlike venkataswami
v want irrigation projects
v want roads to all vilages
as telanagna is rich in resources
and of best economic metro(hyd)
v dont want our accent to be humiliated
v dont want otehrs to dominate our space
v dont want mumbai, delhi, vizag...
v dont want cunning people around us
v dont want to be caste ridden like others
v dont want to get chated time and again
v dont want any superstars or megastars but 2 meal a day
at last
v demand telangana

Anonymous said...

You don't even know what you want. All you have is ego and jealousy to perform bogus udyamam very 20 years to get plum posts. Why don't you write 'v we want plum posts, we don't want cunning people around us as we already fulfil that status'.

Anonymous said...

Telangana people are less talented and have unnecessary ego problem which is leading for demand of separate state. They dont know how to compete in this competitive world so they want a separate state.

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